Car written off, not my fault

memyselfi-28

Hello, I'm seeking advice please. My car was parked outside my house when it was struck by a jeep that had rolled across the road. The owner admitted responsibility, but my car is a write-off. I paid €21,950 for it in March this year, but the insurance will only reimburse €19,000. This leaves me at a loss of €2,950. What options do I have?

Eggs For Dinner

To dispute the offer you will need to provide the assessor with examples where vehicles are offered for sale with the same spec, mileage, condition etc. as yours. Also, what you paid for it is irrelevant as you may not have got the bargain you think you did

memyselfi-28

Thank you, I was given that information by the insurance company. Unfortunately, that is proving to be an impossible task.

Yeah Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122416077#Comment_122416077

I hate this kinda stuff.

If you want to import a car, you pay VRT. Log onto the calculator website and they'll give you an OMSP for the car which is almost always way more than can realistically be expected for the car. This figure is then used to charge you a stupid amount of illegal tax. If you say "there's similar cars going for less than that, here's a couple of examples…." they don't wanna know.

Then, if you get crashed into on the way home and have to replace it, all of a sudden that Government-mandated website with inflated figures is no longer relevant, and you have to go searching for cars that, again, are miles away in price.

Half the time the assessors won't even engage with you, they'll just pull a figure out of their holes and say "that's what you're getting for it". Use the bigger figure when you're paying but use the smaller one when you're getting paid. Disgusting, but unsurprising, we really do get rode sideways with everything.

Donald Trump

Jesus. Must have been some tank of a yoke that caused a write off of another vehicle by rolling into it. Or was the damaged car made of tissue paper?

memyselfi-28

Jeep was a Toyota the tow bar smashed up the front of a Honda

memyselfi-28

Absolutely…

Eggs For Dinner

Assessors are always willing to discuss valuations if you provide them with reasonable alternative examples that aren't initial asking prices being advertised. The assessor him/herself will be happy to show you where they obtained their figures

antfin

I've gone through this process and it involves a lot of pushing back. In my case the assessment was outsourced and it was their job to lowball me on the settlement figure. They basically found examples online and sent those to me, many of which were completely different spec and milage. The first "offer" was based on a hatchback whereas mine was a coupe model, then I got an offer based on the sole example that they could find of a coupe model but with over 100,000km more on the clock. In the end I got them closer to an acceptable figure but it was still a bit off what a like for like replacement cost me but I was also in a hurry to get a resolution which influenced my willingness to accept.

It's frustrating and shouldn't require as much effort on your part but it will require a lot of effort. Gather your information based on cars on sale with direct similarities, spec, manufacturer warranty, dealer sales with warranty, condition etc and use this to push back. In a worse case scenario you don't have to accept their insurers offer and you can happily offer to go to court, which they will want to avoid.

Iseedeadpixels

What is the exact make and model, year etc? When my car was written off the assessor based it off what dealers were selling my model of car for at the time.

coylemj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122416636#Comment_122416636

A dealer price would be at the upper end of the scale. I get the feeling that the OP would happily accept a dealer price but is being offered what he might expect to pay in a private sale with lots of haggling.

OP, you have not 'lost' €2,950, you had the use of the vehicle for three months and are ignoring depreciation. Get the offer to €20,000 and that will represent 8.88% depreciation in four months which is 29.1% annualised. Which is probably closer to fair than what they're currently offering. But that's assuming that you paid a fair price in the first place. If you bought it from a main dealer, you should expect to take a bigger hit on depreciation.

ants09

Insurance is meant to put you back into the same position before the accident, and not leave you at a loss.

If the insurance company is RSA then my advise is to go legal with them

If an insurance company is playing hardball, then don't entertain it and just go legal as it ain't worth the time, hassle and stress

coylemj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122416941#Comment_122416941

The problem is that most people have an inflated value in their head when it comes to their own vehicle.

The OP has to accept some depreciation and that is going to reduce the gap (currently €2,950) he is looking to bridge. Which would bring him into the zone where taking your advice to 'go legal' would be completely barmy.

ants09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122417085#Comment_122417085

My opinion is go legal in relation to any insurance claims, i had dealings with a insurance company where the claims handler lied to me and misinformed me about the market value of my car, he left out a few important bits of information as to where he got the market value of my vehicle.

At the end i had enough, i dropped the case with the central bank and went legal and within a few weeks, they paid what i was looking for.

Insurance companies are there to make a profit, and if that means that they can pay you less and you be worse financial off then they do it without thinking twice

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122416355#Comment_122416355

Not wanting to take the OP's thread way off topic, but I do want to address some points you made.

Firstly VRT is not illegal, before you bring it up there are no annual fines from the EU, this is all just a popular misconception.

Secondly, you absolutely can use the approach you suggest and have the OMSP of the car adjusted on the basis of adverts for identical cars or a valuation from a main dealer, you must pay and appeal, the person in the NCT centre collecting the payment is not a Revenue official and has no power to adjust the VRT, hence why you have to pay and appeal to Revenue. iF you have your evidence all lined up and your ducks in a row you will be successful in your appeal, if you are not satisfied you can go to the tax appeals commission, I have done both.

GSBellew

In regard to the OP's issue, the insurance company will pay the market value for the vehicle, what the OP paid is irrelevant in this regard as they may have been robbed blind by the person selling the car to them.

Yes, they are supposed to be left in a position that they are no worse off, that means being left in a position that they can go out and purchase a replacement vehicle of similar specification, age mileage.

Without the full information, make, model, year, mileage it is impossible to assess if the offer is in line with what the market value would be.

OP if there is a specific reason why your car in particular would be worth a bit more, eg low mileage, high specification highlight these reasons to the insurance company, also do collect information to back up your argument, such as adverts for similar cars.

ants09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122417351#Comment_122417351

Insurance companies will not pay the market value of any car if they can get away with it, in my case my car was economically written off in a crash by the insurance company, i brought the car in Feb 2018 and the accident happened in Feb 2019, the claims handler when questioned about how he came to get the market value of my car quote "a car similar to yours was sold in Jan 2018" he didn't mention that he was referring to my car but said similar car to yours.

As for depreciation, don't even go there as you don't know my case or my car.

From my experience with what happen me, i would advise the OP to go legal because of my experience

thebiglad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122417603#Comment_122417603

Insurance companies do not value the car motor assessors do, they do this based on an inspection of what is left of the car (from which they can get some idea of condition and of course, the spec) - this is reported to the insurer and I would expect in most cases the figure is relayed.

The Assessor should base their value on the market replacement of the vehicle, unless it is a unique model OP should be able to obtain a replacement at that value, regardless of what they originally paid.

Every car depreciates whether you choose to accept the fact or not.

If that is not acceptable to OP then they need to evidence a higher figure, the purchase invoice is not such proof.

Now, if OP goes legal

1. This takes serious time - during this OP is without a vehicle
2. It's gonna cost - in the worst case scenario OP is out 3k - a lot of this will be absorbed by legal fees - the Solicitor may want to appoint their own Assessor - OP will be asked to pay for that
3. Finally, going the legal route does not remove the need to prove that the value is incorrect - the 1st thing any worthwhile solicitor will do on the 1st consultation (which OP will be paying for), is to ask what evidence to support a higher value OP has - solicitor's will not simply write to the insurer stating we want 21,950 because that is what my client paid - they need something to work with.
4. If, this does go into court then the Judge will most certainly want proof.

OP get your evidence of a higher value together and present it to the insurer, they will in turn refer it to the motor assessor to see if they will change their view, this is a quicker approach.

I won't argue its very frustrating but the person you are dealing with likely has a report with number X on it, why would they just increase that?

It is not in the insurer's interest to low ball (they may hold back a small negotiation amount) as all it does is tie up their claims team with people like OP phoning/emailing them and taking up time that could be better spent.

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122417603#Comment_122417603

Not sure why you are trying to get a dig at me about depreciation as I never mentioned it, nor did I mention your car or your case?

The OP would be insane to take your advice to go legal at this stage, they got a first offer, which they can reject and see if they get a higher offer which they most likely will.

You had a bad experience, I've had two experiences of cars being written off, one like the OP's was parked and hit, got a payout without arguing, decent market value, kept the salvage. Second one, other party fault collision, again I got a decent payout & retained the salvage.

There is no point in the OP going all guns at this stage based on your bad experience.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122416550#Comment_122416550

Gotta say, I'm finding it hard to believe it'll cost more than €19k to fix it

I don't understand the mentality of insurance companies, they seem happy to write off cars that should be repairable

Maybe it's worth getting a quote from a few repair shops and you can take this to the insurance company and wrangle a better deal?

Eggs For Dinner

Excellent assessment of the situation by thebiglad above. I would suggest you fòllow his advice, having dealt with this scenario dozens of times

thebiglad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122418251#Comment_122418251

Without seeing the assessor report we cannot be sure but it is likely the car can be repaired for 19k however, that offer of 19k includes the insurer taking possession of the salvage which has a resale value to them - lets say for argument sake it's 10% (but could be higher).

If OP wants to keep the car and get it repaired then they will be offered 19k less the insurers salvage value so, they will not receive 19k.

As per multiple other threads on this site presuming the repairs are undertaken to a high standard and at a reputable body shop there will still be a loss of value when OP comes to sell on the vehicle. Again, repair process would take time during which OP does not have use of the vehicle.

OP will surely want to obtain alternate repair estimates, the car has to be transported to the various body shops for that to be done - does OP have this access to this or, willing to pay for a tow truck?

Insurers are reluctant to repair badly damaged cars as often when stripped down for repair more damage is identified and the costs increase - it is therefore to typical where repair is 60-70% of the valuation to write off - the loss of 30%-40% is somewhat offset to the insurer by the salvage and avoids any issues/complaints with the vehicle owner - if the insurer repairs the car then it will they to whom OP would direct every complaint about perceived issues with the car for the next 6 months - they don't have time nor appetite to deal with that.

For normal folk the best and least stressful approach is to accept that the car is not repairable (outside of a professional network), agree the best deal with the insurer for market value and replace the car. Sure no other car out there is of the same standard and to some degree I can accept that if you owned from new and maintained the car for 5+ years but in this case OP had the car 6 months - a similar car is out there.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122418933#Comment_122418933

Thanks for the great summary, it confirms some of my theory that insurers use the salvaged cars to partly recouperate their losses

I feel that it's bad behaviour on the part of the insurance companies however, cars which can be repaired are being sent to the scrapheap

I understand that it isn't cheap to repair cars, but with proper assessments and budget headroom it should be doable

I feel like it should be at least offered as an option, with the caveats around depreciation and insurance costs. That way the customer can make an informed decision

Anyway, none of this helps the OP unless insurance reform happens in the next week or so

thebiglad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122419282#Comment_122419282

They're not necessarily being scrapped - they will go to a salvage auction and either used for parts or repaired in trade and sold again once fixed. If you remove the commercial labour rates and add ons to parts costs they can be repaired to a perfect vehicle once again and then resold.

How many people do you believe would want/accept a heavily damaged vehicle being repaired and returned to them, they may never be satisfied with the repair as there is a bias given extent of damage, also, in the event of third party claim the owner would look for loss of value due to extent of damage which, if declared in future would have impact on any sale.

It is best for all involved just to call the vehicle beyond economic repair, pay market value and let the trade fix it or break it for parts. There will be exceptions to every scenario and, there is no obligation to sell the salvage to the insurer, just retain it and accept a discount on the payment equivalent to what they would have received for the salvage.

MersD

My car was hit by another car while parked in a car park. The car doing the damage hit a total of 7 cars and there were no injuries. My car is being written off. The offending motorist is insured with FBD and they are saying that they will, shortly give me the pre-accdent value of my car, less the salvage. They have told me today that when the salvage bids come in they will put me in touch with the highest bidder and then I will have to deal with them directly myself, rather than the insurance company doing it. I never heard of such an arrangement. My concern is if the insurance company pay me the main amount, how quickly will the salvage guy pay me the balance because until I get all of it I cannot buy another car, I am having to borrow to buy a car anyway. Is this arrangement peculair to FBD only? What are they like to deal with. I am insured with Allianz myself.

Eggs For Dinner

Standard practice regarding salvage and they pay promptly