?????? v Trump (and one or two others) The US Presidential election 2024. Read OP before posting

Beasty

Neutral ground for all your election talk. However some ground rules. This is not a thread for you to say the sort of things that may have got you banned from one or other existing thread covering the 2 candidates. It is not a thread for "Sleepy Joe", "Dementia Donald" or the like. It's not a thread for posters to accuse other posters of "supporting a rapist". It is not a thread to discuss Trump's legal cases - that can be done in the Trump thread. Basic civility is expected.

Any questions, PM me.

Threadbanned users:

Redliketoast

……

……

et al

ToweringPerformance

Personally i just think it's a sad state of affairs Biden and Trump is the best America can do for their people. I mean come on now it's an absolute farce it's come to this.

The debates will make interesting viewing, that's for sure.

TheIrishGrover

I wonder if the "debates" will even happen. The last ones were not debates but bad-tempered mud-slinging. They (The moderators/studios) should put them into sound-proof booths and cut off their microphones once their time is up.

I doubt there will be any shockers: The Democrats will focus on abortion rights, Trump, Jan 6, Jobs, The Economy, Russia

The Republicans will focus on the Mexican Border, Biden's age, "Woke" agenda, stolen election, Ukraine funding.

They are going to be inarticulate and ugly - preaching to their core demographics with no chance or even attempt to sway undecideds. No information of any substance such as how policies can be funded or implemented.

It will be interesting to see if the moderators clamp down on Trump referring to stolen election allegations or on Biden referring to Trump's personal suits.

eightieschewbaccy

I don't think Trump will actually be willing to do debates tbh.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122021546#Comment_122021546

its a product of a failing right wing (cannot get traction on its policies) trying to generate a support base around culture wars and wedge issues. In that scenario ultra tribalism drives out progressive dynamic candidates on either side. Its the ultimate turf war. Where it will goto if the Republicans lose again ( as it looks like they will) is horrific to contemplate.

The Republicans are in an existential crisis and all Biden has to do is not fie to win - which is exactly why he is the President.

Tragic end times stuff.

twinytwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122021691#Comment_122021691

You can hardly just blame the right wing for the current state of american politics? The left are just as responsible. The Democrats are just as dysfunctional as the Republicans. They are just as crazy as each other and leap further and further to the extremes each year.

ronjo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122021763#Comment_122021763

If you take it as just Trump v Biden how do you classify Biden as being extreme?

Trump has repeated slagged off America recently and said he believes Putin over US Intelligence. To me thats pretty extreme.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122021763#Comment_122021763

... And yet the democrats have had consistently higher share of the vote for around 20 years at this stage. Gerrymandering and the perversions of the electoral system are the only reason that the Republicans are still in the race at all.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122021670#Comment_122021670

Agreed. At most he might do one for Fox if they agree to whichever moderator he picks and knowing he won't be pushed back on, but I doubt he'll agree to do any others, and will likely just say those channels/mods are biased against him (rather than biased for him) and it won't be fair.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122021763#Comment_122021763

Ah yes student debt forgiveness versus a president egging on an insurrection and attempting to coerce a foreign leader to provide dirt on a political opponent. Biden has been a rational political leader. Trump amounted to narcissism and incendiary on a constant basis. They're absolutely not like for like.

The GOP have largely mirrored Trump too.

Stanley 1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122021670#Comment_122021670

Maybe if he is in a cell he will partake………

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122021577#Comment_122021577

If They happen at all. Trump probably thinks he has it won just like the Primaries and that he does not need to do debates with Biden.

IIt US a sad state of affairs alright in Anerica still it coukd be worse. Elon Musk ir that Rapper could have been running you know the one who supported Trump. They are both just as bad as Trump or worse even as at least Musk is intelligent and clever in some ways but a bit stone mad crazy ain others like buying Twitter really was not his best move.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122021546#Comment_122021546

It's not the best they can do, it's just what they have done. Politics has a habit of not always bringing forth the "best" people by whatever metric that is judged.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122021808#Comment_122021808

Would Fox have anyone still on their books who would be fairly impartial if they hosted a debate? Neil Cavuto, maybe? Chris Wallace, who hosted the Fox 2020 debate, seemed to hark back to the old days of news in America, when the news was delivered by someone in a suit for half an hour without any editorial comment. Since he left, they no longer have someone of that calibre.

Biden will want to have a debate. His whole thing is about politics being normal, so he'll call for the usual trappings of an American presidential election. Trump doesn't seem that interested in appealing to the middle ground, whatever may be left of it, so I don't really know how much use he'll see in debating him. 50/50 that he just drops another interview with Tucker Carlson on X while Biden does a town hall on CNN.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023175#Comment_122023175

So, are you saying trump only has the maga base and nothing else? Surely their numbers are not large enough to win him re-election? The fact the polls still have him as favourite, would seem to suggest his appeal is greater than this.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023175#Comment_122023175

what are you basing that on?

Trump has been calling for debates again for weeks while Biden rebuffs of course Trump does “he has nothing better to do”

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023250#Comment_122023250

For starters, Trump would not participate in the Republican primary debates. For him, they were a waste of time because he was already fairly well ahead in the polls and so he didn't need to attend them. To Trump, debates are not for honest discussions of policy and informing voters. Their only utility to him is gaining popularity.

By a similar token, Trump has slight leads in almost all of the battleground states at this point in time and his rhetoric has only become more extreme since 2020, so if he can maintain those leads, he will not want to risk energising moderate voters against by telling them everything he's been saying or giving Biden a platform to point the finger in his face about it. He will speak to the 74 million who voted for him in 2020, in full light of his craziness, while banking on the Biden vote to wane even just enough to take those battlegrounds.

Trump can talk about wanting debates as a way of posturing toward his own base and shoring up the conspiracy theory that Biden's team are trying to shield their man from public speaking due to cognitive issues, but as the real debate time draws near, Trump will simply say that he cannot get an impartial moderator as an excuse to stay out of them and his base will accept this readily. This is if that battleground lead is maintained. He'll be much more amenable to doing them if Biden starts drawing even in polls, however.

Beasty

The OP states where the Trump trial(s) can be discussed, and it's not in this thread

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023369#Comment_122023369

I agree on the analysis on trump not actually wanting to do debates but I equally don’t see Biden as wanting debates as a “normalcy” move. At best if Biden acquiesces the RNC would have to rejoin the commission on presidential debates, having shown themselves the door a few years back.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023475#Comment_122023475

I don't think Biden would call for debates by literally saying he wants to maintain political normalcy, but just because he is supposed to be the traditional candidate who is adhering to protocol and protocol for the last 7 or 8 decades in the US has included a round of debates between the two leading candidates. Biden not wanting to have a debate would imply from him that he doesn't think any dialogue can be had and even though that may be true, it's a grim message to send to potential voters who may want Biden and the Democrats to fend off MAGA craziness in the short term but also reestablish some sort of political normality in the long, and that's something that common sense would tell us is going to be difficult to achieve if not even token efforts are made to reach out to the other side.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023588#Comment_122023588

idk, I think they only need direct the medias attention back to their own reporting - and it was unanimous:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/14/politics/rnc-withdraws-from-presidential-debates/index.html

bucketybuck

Biden should absolutely call loudly for debates, and if they don't happen he should repeat over and over that Trump is a coward who won't face him. That sort of simplistic messaging is exactly what gets through to a large swath of US voters. No matter what excuses are thrown around it will still eat at them that their guy is a coward.

Not much else to say if we can't point out the rather large elephant in the room regarding one of the candidates.

Overheal

More evidence that RFK is just a spoiler campaign for Biden

https://www.newsweek.com/robert-kennedy-rfk-jr-claims-he-was-asked-donald-trump-vice-president-1890441

pjohnson

Trumps calendar is very busy so I don't think he'll be able to fit in an in person debate.

zerosquared

IMHO they the republicans have totally have screwed up with abortion now being pretty much banned

This will drive out people to vote for Biden while on flip side thinking they won many “conservatives” might stay at home

KevMayo88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122023683#Comment_122023683

Biden especially in the last few weeks, has looked very frail. I honestly do not see him physically or mentally able to participate in three whole 90-minute live debates with Trump this autumn. I wish Biden the very best with his health and hope he has many more years, but it is obvious he is simply too old for the campaign to come. Whatever about Trump, he at least seems to have vigour and an energy that Biden does not.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026379#Comment_122026379

huh?

Falls asleep in public. At important functions, too.

Im sure if Joe spent 2 hours a day doing makeup or a full year out of his first term in office just golfing he might have the glow up you're looking for but he’s busy doing the job. As for energy vigor and mental capacity take a look, Joe has plenty and runs circles around the congress

https://www.youtube.com/live/nFVUPAEF-sw?si=Z6Ip4Xio7X4-0H4s

Field east

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026379#Comment_122026379

vigour and energy - it’s all relative. On the law of averages one of them has to have more vigour and energy than the other but is there a major difference between them?. Apart from the vigour and energy issue what would concern me more is what Trump might spout out with all that V and E

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026379#Comment_122026379

Biden last month did the State of the Union address.

Epic fail there.

KevMayo88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026398#Comment_122026398

Trump is regularily holding rallies where he stands speaking for 1-2 hours at a time, without any signs of tiredness or fatigue. Biden couldn't even do a live speech from the Oval Office after the Iran attack on Isreal.

ronjo

I dont like Trump but these are all the reasons he is way better than Biden

……………………………………..

KevMayo88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026425#Comment_122026425

One event. You got me. Biden's back everyone!!

briany

@KevMayo88

Whatever about Trump, he at least seems to have vigour and an energy that Biden does not.

Yes, and whatever about Hitler, at least he didn't smoke and drink like Churchill did.

Your 'whatever about…' is doing the work of ten factories in China pulling a double shift in terms of what it glosses over. I'll say it flatly - a weekend at Biden's would be far better than Trump who incited a riot at the US Capitol over a lie about the election he wilfully spread and is currently being prosecuted for. Do you disagree?

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026438#Comment_122026438

His rallies invariably involve long tangents that make little to no sense. So comparing to the state of the union is fair. The latter was incredibly well received while the Trump rallies amount to two hours of raving.

And the fact that Trump is falling asleep during his own criminal trial is pretty telling.

Penn

Not to mention Trump telling his supporters about a horrible situation with an illegal aldillegdenathen

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1779304544612061567

Age is against both Biden and Trump and we could trade clips of them both until the cows come home, but they're both prone to being old, mumbly f*cks. Neither has the upper hand on the other in that regard.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026562#Comment_122026562

Trump is also evil, vindictive, petty, spiteful, mendacious and narcissistic in addition to being an old mumbly f*ck, with no business near the Oval Office.

Unfortunately, there are people who would want to see him elected again just so they could watch a replay of your one on her knees screaming, "NOOOOOO!!!", and would take that even in exchange for the worst vision of what Trump would try to do with his time back in office.

Pretty short-sighted.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026627#Comment_122026627

MAGA mindset of spite and hate, a policy of wreckers…

Have absolutely zero positive idea or attempt to improve people's lives.

KevMayo88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026627#Comment_122026627

Trump will be the saviour of America.

Look at the state of the world under Biden. Russia/Ukraine, Israel/Gaza/Iran. The world has run riot under a weak and woke US. I'm half expecting China to invade Taiwan for Biden's final few months in power at this stage.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026379#Comment_122026379

The presidents doctors will fill him full of just the right amount of amphetamines to get him through, and the same for Trump.

If you don't think this happens you aren't paying attention to their remarkable one off performances on crucial events.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122027001#Comment_122027001

Like he was the saviour from 2016-2020 when he threw away the election win by his incompetent handling of covid, costing American lives in the process?

Trump's plan for Ukraine is to let Russia run riot with it. But somehow that wouldn't be 'weak' to you. How that is 'weak' compared to what Biden is actually doing you are unable to explain.

Trump's plan for Gaza was to let Israel 'finish the job', whatever that means. How that is 'weak' compared to what Biden is doing? Biden just deployed US forces to protect Israel to try to de-escalate tensions.

Those are self discrediting contradictions you end up posting when you echo MAGA propaganda / social media cues.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122021546#Comment_122021546

There are only 150 million or so of us eligible for the office. We don't have a lot to choose from. It's understandable.

I don't know if abortion is going to be quite the mobilising issue that the Democrats think/hope it's going to be, except insofar as it would be a tangential effect. There is little talk of a federal abortion ban. Sure, one or two Congresscritters have mentioned it, but I think most voters realise that it's a state-level fight. Having either a direct referendum on the matter as some states have done, or simply choosing state candidates on the basis of protecting abortion rights in the states may well get people out to the polls who would not have done so, and while they are there, they may as well cast their votes on the Federal election side as well, but just because they vote one way on the abortion issue doesn't guarantee that they will vote the same way on the federal candidates. The perfect example of this was the California presidential election of 2008: Obama's candidacy brought in particular minority voters out in droves in California… but while they were there, they also cast state-level votes… and enshrined in the California Constitution that marriage was one man and one woman only. (Prop 8, later reversed by the courts, but that wasn't a result of voting). Something similar happened in California 2016: Clinton got record numbers of voters out, Trump got fewer in California than Romney did in 2012. But while they were there, the voters also took the decidedly less Democratic-party step of rejecting a ban on capital punishment (Prop 62), and indeed voting for the other referendum changing it to be faster and cheaper (Prop 66, that one was upheld by the courts).

Perhaps worse, if abortion is the one issue getting you out which otherwise you would stay home, another interesting factlet is that the infrequent voters recently have been pro-Trump. https://abcnews.go.com/538/vote-back-trump/story?id=109090626 And I don't think Trump has ever stated (even amongst all his other flip-flopping on matters) that he would support a federal abortion ban. It seems to be one of the few things he's been consistent on.

So as a result, I would say that abortion would be a significant factor in only a few States, those where there legitimately is a good chance it can be changed. Florida being an obvious case in point as it's on the November ballot, much like it was in Kentucky a year ago. It's on the ballot in New York as well, but realistically, are a few more or less voters going to make a difference as to which way New York votes in federal elections? It's not on the ballot in Arkansas, so would be more a state legislature voting thing, but same question applies. Are they going to change the federal elections much?

But again, as I said above, being a significant factor in attendance is not necessarily a determinant in which way the federal votes will be cast. "OK. I want to vote in November to enshrine into the Florida Constitution that abortion will be protected until viablilty…. That's that done. Now what? Oh. My congresscritter. Now, what affects me more as a 60-something year old near/actual-retiree?" (There are lots of those in Florida). If the candidates don't say "I'm for a national abortion ban", then for most folks it'll come down to other subjects. Border security. Ukraine aid. Israel support. Student debt. Healthcare reform. Global warming. Veterans benefits. Whatever. They've already voted on abortion, that's dealt with. They can use their federal vote on other matters. Those other matters would be topics for future posts, though.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026438#Comment_122026438

without any signs huh

https://news.yahoo.com/dimbulb-trump-torched-rambling-attempt-042438659.html

I don’t find you credible.

Trump couldn’t even do a live address after the January 6 attack. I know which I’m more concerned with.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026627#Comment_122026627

Yeah, but you'd still have to vote for him over a crazy warmonger like Biden. And I think that's the mindset of many Americans right now.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122028761#Comment_122028761

Biden didnt start any wars. Thats just sound bite propaganda to dupe the ignorant.

Trumps approach is to stand back and let Russia massacre Ukraine without the US helping Ukraine defend itself.

Does that make Trump a "massacre monger" by your standard?

As for calling Biden crazy, thats self discrediting nonsense thats not fooling anyone paying attention.

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122028761#Comment_122028761

Trump only recently said Netanyahu should commit genocide in Palestine. In relation to Russia, he seems like he'll just let them take any territory they want....

ronjo

Its hard to imagine this would be a close election if it wasnt for social media.

You can see above the amount of lies being spewed but perhaps for the majority they arent lies in their heads.

"Trump has no signs of fatigue".. you just have to listen to the inane rambles he makes to know that a lie.

"Biden is a warmonger".. what wars did he start?

Christ and its only gonna get worse over the next 7 months.

Overheal

lolz

https://www.mediaite.com/news/biden-mocks-trump-over-tanking-stock-price-in-campaign-speech/

Overheal

While being majorly out raised by Biden, Trump instead of using campaign funds to campaign, is funneling it back into his businesses

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/04/18/trump-campaign-funnels-money-to-his-businesses/73344744007/

crusd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122034447#Comment_122034447

Jesus - the grift is strong. The mentally captured MAGA's will ignore it

Ohio Republican U.S. Senate candidate Bernie Moreno's campaign spent $109,000 on "event catering" at Mar-a-Lago in April, December and January of 2023, records show. Trump endorsed Moreno in December. Moreno won the primary in March and will face three-term Democratic Sen. Sherrod Brown in November.

Nevada U.S. Senate candidate Jim Marchant's campaign spent about $67,000 at Mar-a-Lago on "event venue rental and catering" in November and December. Trump backed Marchant in his unsuccessful bid to be Nevada's secretary of state in 2022.

A PAC called Giuliani Defense spent $2,400 on fundraising expenses and food at Trump's golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey in January. That PAC has spent $540,000 on legal fees, according to FEC filings

ince days after the 2020 election, the leadership PAC Save America spent more than $72.5 million on legal bills to many of the same firms that are representing him in his civil and criminal cases

Is basically fleecing donors to maintain the illusion of success.

Current polling only reflects the core base of both parties because the 40% independents don't declare until election day. So either party having a poll lead at this stage means zip.

When it comes closer to the day most of those independent will hold their noses and go with Biden because putting crazy back into the whitehouse is good for no one.

Its going to be brutal and the more time trump spends in court the brutal it will get for him. No one likes the look of a felon in a position where their known grifting will hurt their country and their own pocket.

Brutal.