Pharmacies insisting on holding prescription

1874

This has happened a few times to me, always issued a 6 mth script for a longterm medical issue that requires an ongoing prescription. I noticed a few differences in the last year or two;

When my script is fully dispensed I have noticed Pharmacy staff insisting on keeping the script. I have typically kept them for my own records as I may not see the same Dr from the consultants team the next time I attend annually for an ongoing follow up. I have been caught short at those annual appointments in the past when I didnt have the script with me, and a different Dr was at the appointment (usually it's always someone completely new to me as the appointments are annual). So, I didnt know the exact dose or even just to confirm that it was given as I had described to a new Dr on the consultants team. Although the Consultants team can look up my records, that takes time for them to pore over.

Lately Ive been quoted a few times in Pharmacies, "Its European law" regarding holding onto an expired script, the last time by a snot nosed Pharmacy Sales assistant, who I didn't ask (but should have ), what law? is there some law or is it some general guidleine for Phramacies in Ireland? or is it just something Pharmacies/Pharmacists have decided to do? because this has happened a few times. I have had to demand back the paperwork (script) that was given to me by the Consultants team that I attend.

I have also been told, despite my script been in date, that it is expiring, ie it may have 2 or 3 weeks left and Im trying to get the last dispense before it expires (imo it's expiring from the day it is written) and once its in date, it is in date. On the last instance I tried to have my script filled, I was told (despite that it was a 6mth script and in date) that it was effectively expired because I had not gotten the scripts filled close to or exactly on the date of each month passing, ie I was late collecting scripts, I was getting the script filled when I had collected only 2 weeks prior, This is as I wouldnt have an appointment for a further 6 mths.

Is there any law? European or otherwise that says,suggest or hints at keeping expired scripts? As I can barely get an in date script dispensed without an ordeal of nonsense, I find the whole thing about keeping expired scripts questionable, it could be very easy for anyone to get my information or garner details of my medical condition if they aren't disposed of, but mainly I want to keep them for my records.

Nightwing1862

You're looking for the Medicinal Products (Prescription and Control of Supply) Regulations 2003. It's Irish legislation rather than European.

10-Pharmacy Records

(3) A person keeping open shop for the dispensing or compounding of medical prescriptions in accordance with the Pharmacy Acts, 1875 to 1977 shall preserve for a period of two years from the relevant date

…

(b) in the case of a health prescription, the duplicate copy thereof and in the case of any other prescription, the prescription; and

…

(4) In paragraph (3) the relevant date” means -

…

(b) in relation to sub-paragraphs (b) and (c) -

(i) where the product is supplied in accordance with a repeatable prescription, the date on which the prescription is dispensed for the last time, and

…

Basically we've to keep the original script on the premises for two years after the last dispensing. After that they're off to the shredder. In practice I've never had an issue giving a patient a copy of the script if I'm asked for one.

Mrs OBumble

Do you have a phone with a camera?

Take a picture of the script before handing it to anyone - and always check yourself that you understand what medicines you've been given, and that they are the ones on the script.

Big Bag of Chips

The medical team you see will have a copy of any script given in your chart. It shouldn't take them a whole lot of time to look up.

Also if you have a monthly script the pharmacy can only dispense monthly. So if you're late ordering one month, and then try to order again 2 weeks later the pharmacy will question, and may not be able to give you, another monthly supply when you are not due it regardless of when your script expires.

If you need the medication monthly I suggest you set a reminder on your phone to order it on the same date every month. That way you won't risk allowing it to go late and possibly missing the last date for dispensing. Also, take a photo as another poster mentioned. Then you can have it ready for the medical team if they can't find it quickly in your notes.

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122293097#Comment_122293097

That says "duplicate copy" not the original, I'll look up the Regulation and see what it says in detail, but at least I have a starting point to search.

1874

I didnt say monthly , I said 6 monthly, thats what I get and am referring to, although an issue seemed to be made about not ordering exactly as they see fit, I get prescribed 6 dispenses on a 6 mthly script, and have been highlighted that they think Im doing something that the script isnt for and even highlighting when its expiring, even when that is weeks away.

Big Bag of Chips

I was getting the script filled when I had collected only 2 weeks prior

This is the issue. You are getting medication monthly. With a prescription that is written to cover 6 monthly dispenses.

If you collect the prescription and 2 weeks later try to order it again the pharmacy will not dispense it because you are not "due" it for another 2 weeks (once a month).

They also inform you that the prescription is coming close to it's expiry date so giving you notice to order a new prescription. They do this for everyone on regular medication. In my 5th month, I am often told I have 1 more month available. If I collect close to the 6 month end date, they tell me my script will need to be renewed for next month. Regardless of whether I've collected 5 or 6 orders.

Your script is for 6 monthly dispenses. They can only dispense monthly, and only up until the end date. If you don't collect a script in time and leave yourself too close to the expiry date then they cannot dispense the final month even if still in date.

Nightwing1862

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122295306#Comment_122295306

No it says duplicate copy of a health prescription (ie medical card scripts where the original is sent to the hse for payment) in the case of any other prescription, you retain the prescription.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122295307#Comment_122295307

You'll find that answer in Section 7 of the same legislation. Depends on whether your medicines are S1A or S1B and how the doctor has written the prescription

Raichų

without getting into what medications you are prescribed there are a lot of them pharmacies have to be very careful about dispensing.

Opioids, ADHD medications, anti depressants and the likes are very carefully controlled and the pharmacy will NOT issue scripts early and won’t issue with an out of date one either.

If you collect your March prescription say on the 1st and try to order your April prescription March 14th you’ll be told to sod off and especially if it’s a high risk drug.

Lower risk medicines will not be so strictly controlled by the pharmacy. Such as I was previously prescribed antihistamines for hay fever that wasn’t getting sorted by OTC stuff. It was a 3 month prescription and they had no issue dispensing me the last one even though it was a few weeks early ordering because (like an eejit), I threw out what I thought was the empty bottle 🤣

Big Bag of Chips

If you collect your March prescription say on the 1st and try to order your April prescription March 14th you’ll be told to sod off and especially if it’s a high risk drug.

Similarly if you collect your March prescription on the 18th March and try collect your April one on 1st April because you know it's close to expiring they won't give it to you.

If the prescription expires before you can fill April's order (which would be about 4 weeks from the March dispensed date) then it's just tough luck and you have to order a new prescription.

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122295417#Comment_122295417

Its none of those types of medication, its essentially a mineral supplement, factually it could kill someone if a person took the incorrect amount (which imo gives away exactly what it is, although I'm not saying or highlighting), however that would be possible if a person took a fraction of their months dispense in one go. I (as responsible adult, where it is blatantly in my own interest) manage my own medication, as per the consultant team who I follow up with mostly annually sometimes further if I couldn't make an appointment (for decades). Without any reason a Pharmacist has no business interpreting what might happen if someone did something stupid when there is no reason to assume that, especially when this typically amounts to snot nosed, teenage shop assistants.

Water John

It is actually the pharmacists business, re the potential of incorrect dosing by a customer and the safety of medicines in general. The pharmacist may question what the GP prescribed and would have particular concerns about the interaction of different medications. That said, with general meds that I'm prescribed every six months, the pharamcy will give me three months supply without question.

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122295350#Comment_122295350

I've never had a Pharmacist make a point of saying my Script is expiring until recently, I know whats written on it, which includes the date, and was why I was trying to get the last dispenses filled, so they wouldn't have an issue with it if it had a few days left (which would still make the script legitimate right up to the date it is due to expire). I clearly have to make a point of setting reminders as suggested earlier to get my scripts on specific dates, as I have found a particular attitude (somewhat condescending) is becoming apparent from my experiences, in particular from shop assistants who imo have limited knowledge and then end up having to approach the pharmacist for assistance (although I did have a Pharmacist ask me why I needed X medication, was none of their business and I have no requirement to explain).

The idea/suggestion of even getting replacement scripts filled sounds straightforward but then I have to have the script to show my (new) Dr, that is assuming I could even get an appointment with ease, which isn't the case, and why I'll be relieved that hoepfully 1 yr scripts will be available, as I don't see why I should pay a GP I barely visit €60+ to write a script which I take as a matter of my daily routine.

I think I'll set reminders on my phone in future.

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1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122296055#Comment_122296055

Well, because up until the last year or two, I always kept the expired scripts for my records, me jotting the details down in a notebook isn't a good record I can show and say this (unusual dose) is what I take and need. I could copy them, but it appears the legislation says the Pharmacy only needs to keep a copy (I'll have to read it in more detail and refer to a follow up comment, but it appears they can even keep an electronic copy, which is very likely what they do). As my Script wasn't being so blatantly required prior to 2 years ago, it makes it appear something has happened that most Pharmacists (I think all that I have gone to) are now insisting upon this very specific thing, when I can do nothing with an expired Script (in terms of getting medication), but it is a very valid recent form of proof to have the original should I ever need an emergency dispense, which I have only ever asked for once (during COVID as I wasn't able to get them, and in that case the amount the pharmacist would give was only a few days worth, which was ridiculous as I explained what and why I take in detail (most other people aren't aware what the dangers are, but I am, been taking it for decades, and if I haven't managed to off myself in error by now, I think it says I know how to follow the Consultants instructions).

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1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122296084#Comment_122296084

? ok

Big Bag of Chips

Unless there's a reason for you to be physically examined then you could just ring your GP to repeat your prescription. You don't have to go in to the doctor.

If you are supposed to get 28/30 tablets in a month/4 week period and you collect that order and go back 2 weeks later to ask for another 28/30 then they are not going to give them to you.

The pharmacist is entitled to ask you questions if they think you might be taking medication incorrectly - if you order 2 months worth of medication in 2 weeks for example.

Sometimes doctors might incorrectly prescribe, might write wrong dose, might prescribe a medicine that isn't compatible with something else you're on. Very often the pharmacist will highlight something that the doctor isn't aware of. The pharmacist isn't asking you questions out of nosiness! They don't care why you're taking something. But they do need to know if it's being prescribed correctly.

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122295371#Comment_122295371

I don't deal with the HSE for payment (ie Im a private patient and private medical insurance holder), so you are saying in the last line of your first paragraph "In the case of any other prescription, you retain the prescription", this means I am correct in my interpretation of the legislation highlighted, ie I keep the script (so even expired, it's mine for my records).

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122296143#Comment_122296143

A consultant specialist might make an error? maybe, not impossible, but even if it happened, I've been taking the same dose for decades, I know what I take, it can raise an eyebrow if I go to a different pharmacy, and why I want to keep my originals as records. I don't want them floating around, very likely they are copied (it seems they are required to be kept for 2 years) and then shredded, in which case I may as well keep them myself, which is what I have always done (until recently, ie the last few years, where pharmacies are increasingly insistent, and I now have shop assistants barely adults quoting me "European law"). I'm wondering what has happened as the Act (looks like SI 540/2003) has been around for over 20 years. The recent and increasing insistence has in my experience only been occurring for the last 2 years at most. It doesn't appear there is a new law introduced recently, so what happened? why the change of approach by Pharmacies? Even when I was recently quoted "It's European law" that now has been shown to be apparently incorrect.

con747

I haven't had a paper script since before covid, I email the surgery when the pharmacy tells me I am on my last script and they email the following script to the pharmacy.

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122296185#Comment_122296185

That is then not relevant to me, I don't get that, nor do I attend a GP for follow up (it would be a waste of my money and time (and theirs) as they aren't a specialist, who I do attend annually, who gives me the scripts).

Mrs OBumble

Pharmacists don't usually try to be difficult (they are less likely to than many other health professional, in my experience).

Maybe pharmacy-assistants are increasingly less experienced with paper scripts, as greater proportions are electronic. So perhaps the pharmacist is now more likely to keep things as simple and say "always keep the script when you dispense the last repeat", instead of getting detail of the various cases, most of which they won't encounter.

It may also be age-discrimination starting to creep in: they look at you and assume you're old/stupid, and just say any old thing: I suspect "European Law" may be quoted like just "GDPR" is, to justify all sorts of stuff.

I've had a pharmacy (major English chain a bit like shoes) try automatically keeping the script on a first repeat - and when I noticed, went back and asked for it, their first response was "Oh, we always keep it, we'll text you when the repeat is due". They backed down when I insisted I wanted the script, but had to go on a long trip upstairs to photocopy the original. In this case, they were trying to be difficult, in order to get repeat business. But that's different to the OP's scenario.

Nightwing1862

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122296153#Comment_122296153

Sorry, was talking about it from the other side of the counter. By 'you' I meant the pharmacy retains the original.

AnnieinDundrum

I have a 6 month prescription usually sent by email to the pharmacy. I order it in their App when I’m nearly running out. If I’m going to be away I’ll phone them and order 2 or even 3 months worth at a time.
During Covid they got uptight about giving me more than one month’s worth. They weren’t sure why, just said it was HSE policy and I’d have to come back in. I explained that wasn’t possible. Anyway the doc solved the problem by giving me 3 copies of the script, one month on each, and I went to 3 pharmacies.

Anyway, occasionally I get a hard copy of the repeat scripts and yes like the OP they like to hand on to them, once or twice I’ve asked them for a photocopy as I like to have the details to hand, especially as I see doctors in different practices.

Ask them for a photocopy. Shouldn’t be too difficult for them.

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122296425#Comment_122296425

If it's on the DPS then this is why they won't give 3 months in a go anymore. The HSE won't let them. I've had an issue with 3 different scripts for 3 different meds (each one a 6 month duration) sent to the pharmacy over the course of a month. Because of the HSE/DPS rules, we're (myself & the pharmacist) are having to figure out what date in a month I can actually order all 3 to save me coming down 3 times as they are restricted by the system.

OP - the legislation seems clear enough to me from what was posted. You could ask the pharmacy for a copy of the script. And yes, on schemes like the Long Term Illness and the DPS (more so lately on the latter), there are restrictions on dispensing within a certain timeframe of the previous time the script was filled. I worked as an OTC assistant in a pharmacy 20 years ago & it was like that even then on the long term illness. Even if the script was running out of date, the system couldn't be circumnavigated to dispense an additional months supply only 2 weeks after the previous. Unless you pay for it out of pocket & it doesn't go through the scheme. As above, they seem to be cracking down on this for the DPS more now too.

AnnieinDundrum

well they sorted it out and I have 3 months in the suitcase now so it’s not a HSE issue, different pharmacy now but still DPS. I simply pay the €80 for each month,

paddy19

"well they sorted it out and I have 3 months in the suitcase now so it’s not a HSE issue, different pharmacy now but still DPS. I simply pay the €80 for each month,"

Don't assume that the €80 a month is the best deal available. Pharmacies can charge whatever they like up to €80.

Best bet is to check the reimbursable price that the pharmacy gets on DPS.

https://www.sspcrs.ie/druglist/pub

Safest way to get the price is to use the five digit drug code from white prescription claim form.

Add a max dispensing fee of €5 for each drug and that gives you the price the pharmacy will get from the HSE.

Pharmacies should offer the drugs at this price but they won't. Not enough competition on price!

If the total that is well over €80 a month stay with what you've got.

Depending on how much below €80 it may be worth emailing a few pharmacies and ask for a quote for 28, 84 and 168 quantities.

The big chains are no good for discounts they want there juicy dispensing fees each month.

Some of the independents and healthwave will normally offer you a hefty discounts for larger quantities.

Most will ship so don't be inhibited by location.