Floods in Europe

tohaltuwi

There’s been some severe flooring in Europe which has led to some deaths.

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/06/01/flooding-devastates-germany-and-italy-following-torrential-rain

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/06/01/authorities-urge-bavaria-residents-to-heed-evacuation-orders-as-flooding-worsens

tohaltuwi

or at least, this far, a death

igCorcaigh

Severe weather across the world. This summer will really bring climate change to us, I think.

It has been 11 months now with global mean temperatures at 1.5C beyond the pre-industrial age.

The hurricane season in the US will be one to watch, and those sea surface temperatures in the North Atlantic are still crazy.

Grassy Knoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122214214#Comment_122214214

I fear you will be proven correct. Hard to argue with the data

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122214284#Comment_122214284

Deniers will find a way

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122214168#Comment_122214168

We've had several flood-related deaths in France over the last couple of months, including one woman whose house was literally burst apart by a torrent of mud. Happened about 50km from where I was working at the start of the month (Picardy), where the only topic of conversation while I was there was how many people have had their lives or livelihoods destroyed by flooding this year.

gossamerfabric

Ghouls.

CelticRambler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122214418#Comment_122214418

?

When you've seen sixty years of your life washed away overnight, or found half your herd of cattled drowned in the morning, or had an entire year's worth of crops rot in the mud, there nothing ghoulish in talking about it.

In my conversations with family and friends back in Ireland, it seems like there's no comprehension as to how devastating these floods have been for us here on the Continent this year.

Akrasia

Its not been reported here in the media at all

The climate change deniers think the Irish media are exaggerating or over reporting on Climate change related stories but in reality if the media actually reported even a fraction of what's really going on in a Europe and around the world they'd have no time to talk about anything else.

The biggest story in the world by far and it's only going to get worse year on year for the rest of our lives because our politicians are too weak to regulate industry and stand up to oil and gas vested interests

gossamerfabric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122214655#Comment_122214655

You are not the only Celtic Rambler round here and I went down to the river and looked at the river bursting its banks yesterday. It is the highest I have ever personally seen it but the pegelstand on Altebrücke is nowhere near as high as it has been in past decades and centuries.

Feck off with your doom and gloom salivation.

Homes and businesses get washed away because they are built where they shouldn't be or someone removed trees and vegetation which were anchoring the earth to the sides of the hill.

Here is a tip: if the placename has Hang or Bach or Gemünd in it then maybe you might want to consider what flood defences are in place before taking out the mortgage.

Here is a fact: The human brain can't properly process natural changes in climate as they take place beyond the duration of one mortal's lifetime. A few KMs from me is a valley through which a river flowed which was part of a tributary of the Rhein but that was tens of thousands of years ago.

I am sick to the back teeth of Climate doom mongers thinking they have even an elementary understanding of how climate works and preaching to the rest of us to repent our sins.

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122214284#Comment_122214284

follow the science

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122214670#Comment_122214670

It's far too late to stop it, it's probably been too late to stop it 40 or 50 years ago.

If politicians and climate activists spent less time with climate taxes bullshit and more time encouraging adapting to the changing climate the world would be far better off.

Improved flood defenses, improved building standards, development of more drought resistant crops, reforestation etc are far useful things to be doing rather than the obsession with taxing everything which just means poorer people are affected as rich people are happy to pay the tax.

There is a degree of a doomsday cult to the climate crisis and you can clearly see some groups get off on the idea of trying to scare the **** out of people so they can control them rather than actually suggestions improvements to how we live they just come out with constant proclamations of doom for everyone.

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215123#Comment_122215123

It's too late to stop (to have zero climate impacts) but doing nothing, even at this late stage, all but guarantees the absolute worst outcomes for humanity.

20 years ago I posted a roadmap for climate change denial in sequential steps

1. Deny everything (warming is not happening and CO2 isn't a greenhouse gas)
2. Amplify doubt (we can't know for sure, maybe some warming is good, there is an ice age coming)
3. Understate the risks (climate change is slow, sensitivity is low, we have loads of time so why act now when we have more pressing problems
4. Accept that climate change is real and a problem but it's someone else's responsibility and we can't make a difference because we're too small
5. Oh crap, climate change has already happened and we're too late to stop it. No point worrying about that now, it's too late to do anything about it

We're between 4 and 5 now

In reality, we are too late to stop damaging climate change, but the need to act urgently has never been greater because the damage and harm can get exponentially worse the longer we fail to stop GHG emissions

gossamerfabric

Akrasia, I am offended by you exploiting floods to further your baseless agenda.

I can see on old bridges in the locality the high water marks etched in and the years are noted down beside them. There are years etched in to those old bridges from centuries before the Industrial revolution got in to full swing.

Floods happened, happen and will continue to happen and the sky is not falling in upon us.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215163#Comment_122215163

If you can't see it, it doesn't exist.

gossamerfabric

I can see what I can see which is a documented history of flooding in central europe from before the time of the industrial revolution.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215045#Comment_122215045

How does science work if the human brain is unable to process such things..

HildaOgdenx

Mod - Moved to CA.
Local charter now applies.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122214670#Comment_122214670

Is this not it being reported?

https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0602/1452675-germany-floods-death/

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215145#Comment_122215145

Doomsday scenarios have been predicted for the past 50 years, people get a little fed up with being told doomsday is around the corner be it acid rain, the ozone hole etc , if more effort was put into providing solutions than scaremongering more progress would be made.You can't blame people for being skeptical when some of the most high profile climate activists clearly appear to get off on scaring people with doomsday predictions.The messaging from the environmental groups of the politicians that represent them is appalling and very often contradictory.

For example we have a Green Party in Ireland and the UK who are supposed to be in favour of protecting this countries environment yet at the same time are also in favour of mass emigration to both Islands.This is massively contradictory as the worst thing that can happen for the environment in any country is increase in population.

People in Ireland aren't allowed to cut turf anymore and Bord Na Mona has been moved out of processing peat for power yet we are importing coal and peat from the continent.

Surely if carbon was so bad then why did Germany shut down all it's Nuclear plants and return to using carbon expensive coal and gas fired power stations.

Ireland has to reduce it's national herd yet Brazil is clearing rainforests and yet the EU and Ireland is going to be importing beef from Brazil.Wouldn't it have been much more environmentally friendly for Ireland to produce as much food as possible in Ireland and only import food which can't be produced here.

The environmentalist movement so full on contractions and also has people who support it with religious like zeal that it has a religious feel to it you can understand why people distrust it.

We need to improve how we operate as a society and be kinder to the environment but environmental groups and green parties and politicians in general have been dreadful at getting their message across over the years and it their own fault, they really need to up their game.

Flinty997

I generally only skim the news, online and even I knew there was flooding in Europe and elsewhere.

ToweringPerformance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215163#Comment_122215163

This is what followers of the Green cult do. They scan the world for weather related news and blame "climate change" for it. It's like a religion for them.

ernielove

Made my way to work this morning in central switzerland via the back roads as a landslip closed the primary road which goes up and over a steep enough hill. what is funny is that they were continuously doing road works there to widen the road from about 2014 (when the tunnel application was voted down) to 2019 and it was a royal pain traffic wise. now obviously they'll need to do more remedial works to the side of the hill as it sweeps down to meet the road and so that'll take another few months of traffic chaos.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215360#Comment_122215360

The reverse must also be true for the Anti Green Cult.

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215229#Comment_122215229

Rising sea temperatures are one example of climate change.

But I haven't seen any evidence that floods in Europe this year are evidence of climate change. There have been similar floods in those parts of Europe for centuries.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122220505#Comment_122220505

Do you mean that at you haven't read anything where scientists have claimed climate change is a factor. Or that you have read it and don't believe it, because you know more about the history of extreme weather events than the scientists who have studied it.

Or theres some old graffiti on a local bridge which you reckon which is more reliable source than statistical studies of historical records.

For my part I know nothing of these events other than the news articles where the history of these events was reported and why the scientists think it's different. I don't really see any articles with peer reviewed studies on why it's not climate change.

gossamerfabric

Not Grafitti.

Retr0gamer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215273#Comment_122215273

But the Ozone layer was a very real threat and was solved by governments actually listening to their scientists and solving it? You people don't realise how stupid you are even when you've already shot holes through your own argument and exposed yourself as a sheeple moron before you've, literally, finished your first sentence.

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221049#Comment_122221049

It just proved my point.They actually provided a solution to the problem implemented it and fixed it.

Alot of the green lobby don't really provide solutions to current problem or certainly none that are in any way palatable or doesn't involve taking a step back to the middle ages.They just scare monger constantly and then do nothing.If they focussed more on providing solutions like I suggested i.e better flood defences, improved building standards, Nuclear power, crop resilience and focussed on that you might have some faith but it's constant endless scare mongering and you feel like a lot of those pushing the green message are just getting off on trying to scare people .

I just pointed out the massive contradictions of green activists and how it makes people not have faith in the message they are pushing.

We had Ciaran Cuffe one of the leading Green Politicians in this country who has his money invested in fossil fuel companies , how the hell is the average person supposed to take geen parties seriously when their messaging is so dreadful and when they act like complete hypocrites all the time.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221045#Comment_122221045

Which is more accurate you looking at a bridge or actual studies...

"…Learning from past events is an important tool for better understanding floods and for the provision of more effective protective measures against future events. According to the Fourth Assessment Report of the IPCC (Parry et al., 2007), the continuation of recent warming trends across Europe and changes in the water cycle are likely to increase the risk of floods in Northern, Central and Eastern Europe. Model calculations for the 2020s project an increased risk of winter floods in Northern Europe, coupled with flash floods across all of Europe. Recent 100-year return frequency floods should occur more frequently by the 2070s, not only in Northern and north Eastern Europe, but also in Central and Eastern Europe (cf. Kundzewicz et al., 2010)..."

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283600391_Historical_Floods_in_Europe_in_the_Past_Millennium

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221173#Comment_122221173

It's a bit of leap blaming the Irish Green Party (and/or Green lobby in Ireland) for floods in the rest of Europe or Germany in particular.

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215273#Comment_122215273

Agree theres been some amount of contradictory shite from green movments over the years and the solution seems to be tax them. 🙄

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215045#Comment_122215045

maybe your brain can't deal with stuff that takes place over a long period of time, but scientists do it all the time. They study cosmology, geology, paleontology, evolution, archaeology and fecking history. They can study data. They can analyse it and formulate it so it can show whats happening over longer periods of time. That's the essence of a huge amount of scientific fields.

There are tens of thousands of scientists who work in climate change. They have spent decades each studying it, which amounts to hundreds of thousands of work years gathering and analyzing data and reviewing each others work. And the vast majority of them all agree,

Climate change is real.

It's man made.

It's getting worse

But feel free to be the guy who's certain that he knows more. Join the ranks of flat earthers, and claim that reality isn't real.

Flinty997

.. And worse might mean more frequent not a overly simplistic metric like higher. Especially considering somewhere with historically frequent floods will have put in flood defences and changed over time. So if the floods are now defeating previously good defences it's likely escalating.

That's a totally different thing to Ireland building in flood zones due to poor regulation.

Jack Daw

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221193#Comment_122221193

I'm blaming them for not providing realistic solutions and trying to get people onside and act in a more environmentally friendly way.That is their entire reason for existing as political entities.The reason they don't ever get enough votes to implement any policies and have a real impact is because generally they are extremely poor politicians and really have no interest in helping run a country they just want to shout from the sidelines.

We can't fix what is happening in Germany but we can help what is happening in Ireland maybe if every country worked to improve their own country it would help the overall situation.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221505#Comment_122221505

Seems more likely people won't vote for change…

https://www.thejournal.ie/very-few-people-see-farming-as-cause-of-climate-change-6397902-Jun2024/

Flinty997

Tbh you have people on this thread and others arguing hard against any form of change. I think that's a difficult challenge for any party.

I can only agree that the politicians seem poor. But on the flip side we've seen improvements in public transport, cycling, charging infrastructure. Perhaps at glacial pace, and perhaps not optimal. But improvements nonetheless.

rogber

Human made climate change is real but most of us still just choose to stick our head in the sand and ignore it and the usual idiots like Trump and Jordan Peterson and other right wing morons will continue to claim it's a hoax.

May their children and grandchildren suffer the consequences! No pity if they do.

AMKC

Its 80 years since D-Day.

Happy D-Day Everyone.

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122222590#Comment_122222590

Not really, the airborne went in around midnight 6th June, and the beach landings began about 7am, 6th June

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221563#Comment_122221563

"Change" is good? Change can be anything. If you drill down into what people want, its never black and white. More electric car charging, but less new "green" taxes. I theory both would be on opposite side of the "green agenda".

Potatoeman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122221563#Comment_122221563

How many poster in this thread are going to make a real change in their own lives? One of the best things you can do is never travel by plane. People will call others deniers and ignorant to science and then still plan their own foreign holiday abroad.

Flinty997

That article obviously hit a nerve.

I've changed to green tea....

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122223302#Comment_122223302

Not really, the airborne went in around midnight 6th June, and the beach landings began about 7am, 6th June

Well they are celebrating it today.

Flinty997

There were also sappers clearing the beaches before the main force.

CelticRambler

How the feck did a discussion about excessive rainfall in Germany in the Weather forum morph into chatter about an ancient war offensive in France in the (supposedly) Current Affairs forum?

Flinty997

The Germans started it....

Pman

No more than building on a flood plain is going to leave your house at risk, building large infrastructure is the countryside is going to affect hydrology despite the millions that might be spent on Natura reports , EIS , engineering reports etc. I find it interesting the blame for the Funshinagh flooding crisis is being laid at the door of climate change.

But does it not raise questions if the beginning of the continuous Funshinagh level rise coincided with the constrcution & tarring of the M17 56KM TUAM to Athenry motorway in 2015. Although its 50KM from Funshinagh here are some facts

• The M17 road surface water runoff does not drain to surface rivers . It goes to attenuation ponds meaning it actually goes into the limestone karst aquifers which are linked to turloughs. The M17 is highly unusual in that it does not drain its water to a surface water rivercourse.
• The M17 collects 1.2 million m3 of water every year and this has been going into the aquifers over 8 years . So 9.6 million m3 of water has gone into to aquifers since 2016.

So it appears that the flooding in Lough Funshinagh is a man made infrastruture problem rather than a man made climate change problem.

Pman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122214655#Comment_122214655

There have been too many impermeable surfaces ( roads built ) across Europe. Flooding has been getting worse because of more impermeable surface being built on the surface of the earth. Climate change is as much to do with is reckless building of infrastructure as it is about CO2 making clouds (????). Unless we start digging up tar and concrete and returning it to slow infiltration , soakage and drainage patterns, more and more people will be flooded out if it.

Pman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122215045#Comment_122215045

Spot on Gossa,

No more than building on a flood plain is going to leave your house at risk, building large infrastructure is the countryside is going to affect hydrology despite the millions that might be spent on Natura reports , EIS , engineering reports etc.

I find it unsderstandable ( given feverish climate doomsayers atmosphere ) that the blame for the Funshinagh flooding crisis here in Roscommon is being laid at the door of climatechange. And woe betide anyone who says otherwise.

However , normal people should be questioning this narrative if they see that the beginning of the continuous Funshinagh level rise (2016) coincided with the construcution & tarring of the M17 56KM TUAM to Athenry motorway in 2015. Although its 50KM from Funshinagh here are some facts

• The M17 road surface water runoff does not drain to surface rivers . It goes to attenuation ponds meaning it actually goes into the limestone karst aquifers which are linked to turloughs. The M17 is highly unusual as a motorway in Ireland in that it does not drain its water to a surface water rivercourse. It quickly surcharges collected rainwater into the unknown depths of crevases in the underground aquifer complex.
• The M17 collects 1.2 million m3 of water every year and this has been goinginto the aquifers over 8 years . So 9.6 million m3 of water has gone into to aquifers since 2016. ( 1m of water falls on this region per year and ive multiplied it by the area of new tar and concrete.

So it appears to me at least that the flooding in Lough Funshinagh turlough is a man made infrastruture problem rather than a man made climate change problem. The lake used to disappear every year before the motorway was built.

Flinty997

According to those reports one of the reasons for flooding in the Germany/Rhine is unseasonally heavy rainfall that happens with unseasonally greater frequency so ground gets overloaded and the water runs off. This is often due to unseasonally hotter or colder periods that mean melting snow and ice happens later or early increasing the normal volume of water in the system for that time of year.

Those that compile these vast studies that use data going back hundreds if not thousand of years seem to think climate is a factor in that. But they don't ignore human impact on it either, since they go on about that at length also..

tohaltuwi

the recent torrential flood affecting Mallorca airport provided water deep enough to swim in out on the apron.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/11/torrential-rain-floods-majorca-airport-spain/