Masters of Accounting

TwentyFiveCent

Hi all,

Final year student due to start Big 4 Tax in the Autumn. Now contemplating doing the Accounting Masters, ideally in the Smurfit. Very torn on whether I should start working or do the Masters. Firm would sponsor me for part of it, Smurfit is expensive but I'm keen to do it there if I do the Masters. Does anyone have any insight on an Accounting Masters/Smurfit one specifically/what should I do?? Is it worth it or do I just want the CV to look good and have another year of college?

Jim2007

Well if you are going to qualify as professional accountant it is not going to make any difference to an employer if you did it or not and especially so after you have a few years experience under your belt. Being ex Big 4 and qualified will be enough to land yo the interviews you need after qualification, so I certainly would not do it, unless it was fully sponsored including living expenses.

However I do feel that tax is very limiting from someone in training and will be more difficult to sell after qualification if you are interested in getting into the more general accounting stream. If that is you intention, then I'd advise you to get as much not tax experience as you while in training

Kurooi

Are you only doing CTA ? Normally people would be aiming at ACA/ACCA and maybe CTA as a bonus , in which case a masters is very valuable for the exemptions. Not such a big deal for CTA which is shorter.

witchgirl26

To be honest, I don't see the masters as a massive bonus at all. I did Big 5 accounting & got my ACA. Didn't do a masters. The masters does give you an extra level of exemptions for the exams but the masters takes a year & those exams take a year so no time saving as such. Most employers post qualification look at the professional qualification rather than degree or masters. Now if you want to do it, go for it. I know a few who did out of interest rather than necessity.

TwentyFiveCent

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122177868#Comment_122177868

No I'm doing ACA and CTA, so 4 sets to do as it stands (CAP2,FAE,Part 2,Part 3). Feels like an awful lot to do in 3.5 years. If I do the MAcc, it's only the latter 3 to do (in 3 years), while the Smurfit one gives me a partial Part 2 exemption too. I'm very torn on it. I don't think the MAcc is necessary if doing ACA or CTA, but if doing both, I do feel it could be a help.

TwentyFiveCent

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122178190#Comment_122178190

Yeah I'd be very interested in it alright, the Smurfit MAcc is quite tax heavy and I really enjoy tax in general. And obviously having a Masters is still quite prestigious, even though in the industry it does not matter that much.

chubba1984

I did an MAcc myself and reflecting on it now, while I was selling it to myself at the time that it would be a better/easier way to get exams done, I think I just wanted to put off working and have another year as a student. I didn't do it in Smurfit as the sponsorship from Big 4 didn't fully cover fees there and I couldnt afford the excess plus living costs, so I did it in Galway.

Once you have your training contract done, the Masters is just another line in the CV. Only the professional qualifications matter. I have CTA and ACA and nobody cares that I have MAcc too - it really isn't considered prestigous once fully qualified. It wasnt even a factor in getting the two industry roles (in tax) that I have had in the 10+ years since completing training (in Big 4 Tax).

If I had my time back, I would just go straight from undergrad to Big 4 and skip the MAcc, as all I ended up was a year behind my peer group in getting qualified, still having to work a part time job at weekends to fund living expenses and the exams overall took 4 years anyway.

TwentyFiveCent

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122180042#Comment_122180042

Thanks for such a comprehensive answer, I really appreciate it. The part-time work is big alright, I was originally dead set against doing the MAcc because I was fed up doing part time at the weekends. I’m very conflicted on what to do, not great at making decisions! Feel like I’ll be happy enough whatever I do choose. Did you feel your MAcc gave you greater in-depth knowledge on accounting/tax, and did it translate to work at all?

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122178671#Comment_122178671

The next three or four years are going to be hard whether you do the masters or not. As the managing partner (RIP) at the big 4 where I trained at decades ago use to say - we are not going to let you loose on the general public unless we are sure you are up to the professional standards, because people don't pay you to get things almost right. And he was right! In addition to that there is the work aspect, unless things have changed dramatically there will be a lot of over time, during the audit season, tax deadlines etc… plus of course attending lectures in the evenings, weekends etc…

The masters is not going to change any of that and when it comes to recruitment after qualification it is not going to carry much weight either. So I'd say it's a personal decision rather than a professional one - if you really want to do it and can finance it then go for it, otherwise don't feel you are missing out on anything and just complete your training contract.

If you are going to put time and money into education, then I suggest you consider broadening your education rather than increasing the account/finance concentration, after you qualify. A good command of a couple of foreign languages, an understand of manufacturing and engineering processes, marketing, HR etc… well do more to set you apart from your peer and make you more marketable than more accounting will.

chubba1984

No, to be honest. There's no substitute for on the job experience in my view. I feel a person gets better experience/practical knowledge during the training contract dealing with real life scenarios, rather than regurgitating answers from a text book.

A lot of accounting/tax is based on soft skills like people skills on how to deal with clients and colleagues, multitasking, managing budgets and deadlines etc. as well as understanding the business you are advising. You'll often find the people who progress the further are those with those skills in abundance and you dont really develop those on a masters.

TwentyFiveCent

Thank you everyone for the advice, I really appreciate it. I suppose I have to admit to myself that I probably just want another year of college more than anything. COVID meant I spent 1st year at home so probably wouldn’t mind another year. And maybe my ego just likes the idea of doing a Masters too. Lots to think about! Thanks again.

Kurooi

Ok. I'm an ACA did do the masters and sailed past those FAEs no trouble, from what I've seen practically everyone doing a masters had a good run.

Meanwhile I've seen people wash out and lose their energy on ACA, ACCA, CIMA, CFA and all that. It's a long journey. Balancing study with work is difficult. Shortening that crunch down to just one week of exams gives you a massive edge.

I'd expect 2 scenarios here, one is that you do the msc, you will work for a year with no lectures or exams, then start lectures and do your ACA on year 2 of the job. You will get generous time off for FAE. Top it off with CTA year 3. If you were to fail your ACA the firm will not bat an eye. They will never toss an FAE you're practically in the door.

Or you don't do msc, you jump straight into work and cap 2. And your firm will watch your exams like a hawk ready to kick you out the door. That first year of working is great, but it's a shock. A lot less free time, a lot more to occupy your mind.

You should also know that you are biting on a lot, ACA and CTA all at the same time is a LOT to chew I hope you don't entertain the idea of doing that but if you are you better be top of your class . You have time, a long career, pace it. If you're the ambitious type that's great but accounting will see you get a good career if you stay on it, don't race and be all or nothing.

I would recommend doing masters,I disagree with it being a year delay to a career, firstly it cuts 6 months off your qualification time, secondly you will be trusted and given more better work by your manager over people with just bachelors, thirdly you will have that first year to entirely focus on the work and make a great first impression and a solid start instead of beating down on exams. I don't know you, you know yourself best, but I think on average doing it is smart risk mitigation.

Iscreamkone

Would employers prefer a BSc Acconting or BComm in front of a different degree plus an accounting diploma?
Apologies for slightly off topic

AnnieinDundrum

will the Big 4 sponsor your MAcc?

If not look elsewhere and get at least partial sponsorship. If you live near enough to Smurffit then it’s not too bad but otherwise it’s a tough year and expensive.

Cuts a bit of time off your exam route/contract so it’s worthwhile. But in 5 years time no one will give a toss how you got there.

i would say if you can do a more general training while doing ACA, get your auditing done now and do tax later. If you are only interested in tax then I’d question why you are bothering with ACA at all.

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122185496#Comment_122185496

I would disagree with a lot of this. Firms do bat an eye if you fail your FAE's - I've seen people shown the door for it. The agreement was to pass your professional exams in the duration of your contract, if you can't do that (masters or not), they will potentially let you go. I saw 1 person get a reprieve because it would only be an extra month so they let them have a go & I myself had it as I had an appeal in for my (then) Prof 3 result which my firm knew would be granted.

As for the being trusted more & given better work than those with "just bachelors" is a pile of poo in my experience. Realistically none of us knew what we were doing at the beginning so we were all given the same type of work. I mean some did get better jobs than others but that was luck of the draw rather than being based on level of qualification. You're all juniors in the firm together. In fact I had a done a BA in Accounting & used the then Prof 2 book as our accounting book in college & was givent the same work as one of the lads who had a BSc in Agriculture Science during our first few months. It's only after seeing your actual work will the managers etc start giving different work to different people based on what they actually perform like.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122186263#Comment_122186263

Honestly I didn't see it matter. The big 4 when I applied wanted you to have a 2:1 degree & that was it. I know people who had BSc's, BComm's & I myself have a BA & we all got spots in Big 4. And once you have the professional qualification, no one really notices what the degree was in if you're going into accounting based roles. The main this is the exemptions - so with a BA in Accounting, I was exempt from the first set of exams which meant I had the final year of my contract exam free (or a spare year in case I needed it to repeat). Those who came in with no exemptions had to do all 3 levels & had no wiggle room if repeats were needed.

Any employer since, while they've asked about my degree, has been more interested in the professional accounting qualification.

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122178773#Comment_122178773

I think study past the degree level especially should be in something you're interested in rather than what you think might further your career. It might do the latter but the former should be the driving factor.

Kurooi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122188437#Comment_122188437

Absolutely, and if you have 2 lads starting their contract, one only has to do one year of lectures and just one session of exams, while the other has all the CAP2s and FAE ahead of him so at minimum 2 years and 3 exam sessions, which one would you put your money on? Whose shoes would you rather be in? Because that's what OP is asking.

And he wants a CTA too? That's another year of exams and more to attend and sit. One fail and you're not making that within the contract. You've left ZERO wiggle room, zero contingency.

I've seen enough ambitious and smart people fall and throw away their career on these exams, I can only recommend making that journey as smooth as possible and don't get anywhere near that contract date because the stress will kill you.

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122189240#Comment_122189240

Ok but he still has to study the same amount to get a good grade in the Masters so that's a full year of study as well. Plus then another 3 years of a contract. Instead of a 3.5 year contract & getting paid during the time. There's lots of ways to look at it. I have friends who started the same time as me in Big 4 but had done their masters. They were a year older. Our contracts ended about the same time. We all came out with the same qualification at the end of the day. And I've been in those shoes - I chose the CAP 2 (well Prof 3 for me) & FAE's. And I would make the same choice again personally.

As for the CTA - most firms will not kick you out if you've passed your ACA & have a struggle with the CTA. It's because the CTA is seen as optional at that point almost. They'd like you to get it but you've proved yourself to a point so they are a little more lenient - might make you sign a contract extension but that's at most.

The people I've seen suffer most with these exams are the ones who either thought they knew it all & didn't bother putting in the work for them or those who were only trying to get them to look good on a CV rather than having any interest in accounting or tax. In my team alone there were 10 of us sitting FAE's in the one year (which was unusual) & we all passed. You put in the effort with the lectures, you put in the time during the generous study leave (& not go off on holidays for half of it), you stand a good chance.

Aditi70

After my ACCA papers, I was also confused as to what to do: Job or CFA. Then after brainstorming I decided to do CFA alongside job in order to further enhance my career.