Problem with local over house sale.

seabre

Any help or advice appreciated.
we have a property for sale and have encountered a problem with a third party in the vicinity.

Long story short we bought a site from a gentleman and built a house on it he owns the adjoining land behind our site.

He has 2 sisters who both own the properties adjoining his land that adjoins ours.
Over the years the sisters use his land as a short cut to walk from ones house to another and at times may walk on ours too. We have no problem with this as wanting to be neighbourly had no reason to ask them not to walk on our land.
we are now selling our house and want to put a boundary fence up to show where our site ends.
On seeing the engineer peg out the boundary lines one of the sisters called me to say she disagrees with the position of these lines and is threatening to lodge a dispute claiming part of our land. Bear in mind she does not own the adjoining land her brother does!

He is in agreement with the boundary as he was the person we originally bought the land off.

She is acting erratically and filming my husband as he erects the new boundary fence.

Any advice how to handle this situation to avoid any escalation or disruption to the sale? The lady in question is elderly and has had poor health recently. I’m actually so shocked and confused by her actions. She is adamant she can object to the sale and the new boundary as she believes it invades her privacy!

Allinall

Just ignore her.

It's none of her business, and there is nothing she can do, other than try to influence her brother.

kraken208

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122165858#Comment_122165858

Not true unfortunately.

She can dispute it and you may have to declare that dispute to potential buyers which they may or may not care about.

its madness but its more common than you think. i'd advise you to try resolve it with her if at all possible

SupaCat95

I am not saying this but "Does she have any legal right of way?"

Is it in the deeds of the property?

By allowing her to cross your land has she gained access to these rights?

This is a question for a solicitor. Stamp out these notions hard and fast. @Peregrinus

I can see how this sale is upsetting her, particularly as people get older and are terrified of change.

elperello

Best not to get involved in any conflict with her.

Also check in with your solicitor.

seabre

the land and title are all registered in our name and there is no right of way.

I have been looking into adverse possession but I don’t think walking on the land would be suffice to claim this? Especially since to claim this she needs sole and exclusive use but we used to grow veg there and have physically been on it countless times…. We just didn’t keep it as part of our lawned area as it was bigger than we needed….

SupaCat95

Check out another poster here who got into a dispute with a neighbour over a laneway and right of way. The neighbour cannot stop the sale but they can put a dispute for a small fee. The potential buyers solicitor will advise dont go through with it while it is ongoing. This would be better off settled quickly and quietly with the Brother telling the Sister to knock it off.

kraken208

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166005#Comment_122166005

our land and title are all registered in our name also and there is no right of way but it didn't stop someone disputing it.

its crazy and wrong and frustrating but it happens.

Furze99

The phrase about 'bad fences make for bad neighbours' comes to mind. Though in this case the neighbour was fine till now.

seabre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166068#Comment_122166068

just been reading your case 😩 wishing you good luck!

When and how were you notified a dispute was lodged?

seabre

I know! The brother got a high price for the site when he sold it to us and in fairness he has been very fair with regards to the boundary. He has effectively washed his hands of the matter saying he has tried to reason with her but has had no joy.

I’m

Just wondering if she has to dispute his land too given that it is in between ours and hers? She can’t very well dispute ours and not the land in between ours and hers could she?
The whole thing is crazy. What possesses people to think they have a right to land someone else has legally bought and paid for? That level of crookedness just baffles me!

seabre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166065#Comment_122166065

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166065#Comment_122166065

I know! The brother got a high price for the site when he sold it to us and in fairness he has been very fair with regards to the boundary. He has effectively washed his hands of the matter saying he has tried to reason with her but has had no joy.

I’m

Just wondering if she has to dispute his land too given that it is in between ours and hers? She can’t very well dispute ours and not the land in between ours and hers could she?
The whole thing is crazy. What possesses people to think they have a right to land someone else has legally bought and paid for? That level of crookedness just baffles me

Jim_Hodge

Just ignore her. Sounds like bluster on her part. Get your solicitor to drop her a letter pointing out your legal boundary rights if you want.

tinytobe

If somebody is walking on your property, they are practically trespassing.

It's legally them who are breaking the law, not you.

kraken208

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166666#Comment_122166666

This is correct but it doesn't stop them raising a dispute which in turn you have to notify potential buyers of which can cause issues.

The only way to negate it is to bring them to court which is long winded and costly and bad actors use this to purposely try and harm you or your sale.

They may be breaking the law but the law also does not protect sellers. it is like the planning scandal recently going on

kraken208

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166576#Comment_122166576

Thank you.

We weren't notified by Tailte Eireann as there has been no official complaint raised that way. we were just very unlucky the potential buyers had the same solicitor as the crooked dispute raiser!

good luck yourselves, not trying to scaremonger but just best to try sort these things early if you have any chance to do so. cheaper than solicitors!

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166617#Comment_122166617

It's hardly crookedness, you say yourself she's elderly and in poor health. Just has a bee in her bonnet for some reason. People don't like change. But really you should have fenced that land previously and put a gate or gates in to facilitate them.

SupaCat95

@Furze99 I am dealing with one of these people at the minute who are old and have become suddenly very awkward to dealing with people in their old age. Everyone is out to get them and con them out of their God given rights (like you , you and especially you). I wish time wasnt a factor to selling your house. Usually what happens is that father time gently takes care of the problem and she goes into a nursing home and drifts off quietly. The matter is forgotten about.

Ezeoul

How old is the sister? You mention she is acting erratically.

Is it possible the onset of dementia could be a factor?

SupaCat95

@Ezeoul that is not surprising at all. Currently seeing strange numbers of people with "swollen epithelial tissue", more car accidents and other forms of mental degeneration. I am thinking of booking myself into the monastery in Tibet for my old age.

eusap

Could you agree to get an independent surveyor to check the Maps and mark the site, this might quieten her

Bio Mech

IF you never gave her permission in writing to access your land then it as far as you should be concerned it never happened. You never told them they could walk across your land and you have never seen them do it. That should be your position once you are happy the boundary is in the right place. I wouldnt engage with her at all, you cant reason with some people.

SupaCat95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122168398#Comment_122168398

The problem is if she actually gets that annoyed to go to law and get this legal note written up. There is a big difference between having a serious gripe and taking the time, and putting €1k on a table for a solicitor to do half an hours work. Solicitor will take the money no problem and fight the case if there is money there. Dont let it get to that stage. We all know she hasnt gotten a case but she could get that legal notice written and no one will touch that sale.

I think the real reason is (See movie 12 Angry Men), is that nobody is listening to her. Many of her friends are gone. Much of her life has slowed down. Suddenly there is this disruption in her life and she feels she has some influence. She isnt going to go quietly.

I most definitely wouldn't ignore her (I didnt say give into her demands either), nothing angers a person more than being ignored. She just wants her world to remain the same. Keep it sweet and upbeat until after the sale is complete.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122168398#Comment_122168398

Ironically, if she had given them documented and caveated permission it might have left her in a stronger position were a genuine dispute to arise. Proof of permission would actually defeat a claim for adverse possession.

Future easements by prescription was almost "abolished" in the 2009 LCLRA but were brought back by an amendment around the end of 2021. The OP would be wise not to accept many of the above posts as absolute

AndyBoBandy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166602#Comment_122166602

What possesses people to think they have a right to land someone else has legally bought and paid for? That level of crookedness just baffles me!

All the land (yours, the brothers and his siblings) was presumably a part of a larger family plot that got divided out when parents most likely passed away, and although the brother sold a plot to you, and it was all above board, the sisters probably still see your plot and consider it as 'their' land (because it was once a part of their family plot), and as we all know, people can get very funny when land is at stake, so they are doing everything they can to just be awkward…

They are happy with the status quo, and you selling up is upsetting that status quo and the fence going up probably offended them (even though they have absolutely no right to be).. a new owner will probably come in with zero regard for them or the brother, and won't want anyone trespassing on their property full stop, and the sisters probably know this…

seabre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122168266#Comment_122168266

When had an independent surveyor mark out the plot for ourselves. When she saw the pegs and said she wasn’t happy we immediately checked and asked him to order the original map from the sale ( the local council has changed to digital since).. we then asked her brother to be present for the re-marking of the site so we could be sure everything was above board and correct. The brother attended and agreed to the site boundaries. We have done everything to be fair and ensure everything is done professionally. For some reason she is still not happy.

seabre

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122173743#Comment_122173743

The thing is… the shortcut between the two sisters property still exists! It’s just that there is a new fence along our boundary, the brothers land has not changed and I assume he will still facilitate them walking back and forth….

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166922#Comment_122166922

Is that not a conflict of interest for the solicitor, to use information learned in one case in another case?

Had the solicitor approached you via on behalf of the dispute raiser?