Pulling out of house sale

alpine4

I live abroad and am selling my property. It was my home but I moved away temporarily with work and rented it out while away. I'm now moving back home and need to relocate within Ireland (hence the sale). It went sale agreed 5 months ago for what I was told was a good offer. There have been a number of delays with the contracts going through and almost 4 months in I discover the estate agent told the buyer that all contents were included. I was never consulted on this, her exact words were "we assumed since it was rented out you wouldn't want any of that stuff".

I'm furious (mostly with the estate agent). The buyer's solicitor wasn't happy and so I have had to compromise and leave some of my furniture. The sale looks to be going through now, with some of my furniture included. However, my friend is selling a similar property nearby and the asking price is 20k more. There are a number of bids over asking and they continue to go up. I think I'm being ripped off. I want to tank the sale and put it up again with a better estate agent. I'm wary of letting the buyer down, but I'm so annoyed with the entire process and now feel I would also be significantly better off if I were to appoint a new agent to handle the sale and try again. Has anyone had a similar experience?

herbalplants

First I would like to say that prices have increased since 5 months ago. You went sale agreed 5 months ago! Hence price difference.

About contents of the house, it is strange as any agent would ask what is included in the sale when the ad goes up.

Kaisr Sose

I had a similar to experience where I went sale agreed on a rental property The offer I accepted was not 'incl contents'. They were never discussed before it was listed or at tile of offers.

As this arose so late in the conveyance, I was backed into a corner to throw them in or risk them pulling out. I was unhappy with the EA too.

You can pull out of your sale at any time up to signing of contract. It's up to you.

Regarding the asking prices of similar properties, remember prices have moved upwards since you accepted their offer some 5+ months ago. Thats just the market. You are not being ripped off if you accepted a market price 5 months ago. Is there a reason contracts are not signed ?

Your sale sounds like mine..great offer, lots of delays, new facts about contents. My sale took over 7 months to close. Very frustrating overall for both buyer and seller. My solicitor was most of the problem and acted like they can do what they want and get away with it.

Sleeper12

No two sales are alike & prices differ between one sale and another. Obviously prices have increased in 5 months.

What exactly are you looking for?

Only your solicitors can fully advise. If you didn't agree to include contents then you don't need to include them. The fact that you seem to have compromised suggests that you have now agreed to include some of the contents at the price agreed 5 months ago when prices were a bit lower.

Your solicitor is the only one that can advise you if you can pull out of the sale at this stage

C3PO

In short, if the contracts have not been signed then you can walk away. Morally, it’s another matter but that’s for you to decide.

alpine4

Appreciate the responses so far.

@herbalplants tip of the iceberg with this estate agent unfortunately. They've been handling the let also and I've had a number of issues. Anytime I raised one, I was reassured each time. I'm on the other side of the world and was bound by contract to stay with them since they had found and vetted tenants. Tenants vacated a while back and my mother went in and video called me. First time I've seen the inside since I left. It looks like someone took a knife to my leather furniture, burns on the woodwork, furniture covered in bleach stains, not to mention a few items missing (my TV has been taken) so now I somewhat undertand their snarky remark about me not wanting the contents back. EA isn't taking my phonecalls or responding to my emails now. Obviously a certain amount of wear and tear is expected. No tenant lost any part of their deposit. I've asked to see the inventory carried out between tenants, I suspect it wasn't done since they didn't even notice that a large flat screen TV from the middle of the sitting room was missing. So honestly @Sleeper12 if I'm honest with you and myself, I think part of my grievance is that I don't want to give this EA the sale and pay them more money. The error with the furniture was copped on April 2nd and even then they never told buyer furniture wasn't included. It wasn't until buyer's solicitor read the contract about 2 weeks ago (which to be very fair was sent to her in January). A few stern words were exchanged between the solicitors hence the furniture compromise.

Have to add, I've no issue with the buyer. It must be frustrating for them too to think that everything down to lamps and mirrors was included and now it's not. Their solicitor contacted last night and now wants me to pay a year of management fees for them. My solicitor politely told them where to go and explained that if they're not happy they can back out and I'll put it up again and get more for it. So I've decided to leave it the ball in the buyer's court now. Solicitor has been great throughout all of this. Surprised to hear how common it is @Kaisr Sose. You would think EA would confirm in writing what their clients are including before putting a proeprty up. I guess my feeling of being ripped off is less about the offer and more about the thousands of euro worth of furniture included in it which, even 5 months ago, was a rubbish deal for me for the price. Radio silence from the EA throughout all of this, at least on my end.

Side note: I'm reporting the EA to the PSRA (for this and a number of other issues). Wasn't surprised to discover there is already a complaint in about them from someone else who was selling their home with them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139724#Comment_122139724

I’d have to say, this update makes me have some sympathy with the EA.

I suspect most sellers of rented properties give instruction to the EA on whether they are leaving the furniture, the EA should have asked, but you are at least equally culpable for the misunderstanding.

If you can view a video of the property now and see all the issues, why didn’t you do that before you gave the tenant back their deposit? Now that you have seen the condition of the furniture, is it being included in the sale still an issue?

I’ve rented houses for years and never considered taking furniture from a rented house back into my own, it’s usually damaged. Over the last 4 months, no doubt you made arrangements to take all the furniture out, how did it go?

alpine4

As I've explained, this wasn't my "rental property", it was my home. EA was aware of this. When I bought it a few years ago I viewed a lot of places. Admittedly, that is as far as my limited experience in the property game goes but never did an estate agent inform me that the furniture was included in the asking price, nor did I assume it was (one did state that the seller was willing to sell the furniture to go with the sale). I then furnished the house with good quality stuff I planned on keeping long into the future, not expecting to ever have to rent it out, albeit for a brief period. Moving to my new home, my things are coming with me. I imagine it may be different for a landlord who has a rental property as well as their own home.

I'm in my 20s with my first home, zero expertise in this area. I'm paying an EA to provide a service, assuming with their many years of experience they can advise me professionally and are acting in their clients best interests. At the same time, I completed a questionnaire provided to me by the solicitor that specified contents were not included, hence he did not include it in the contract. Buyers solicitor received that in January and didn't spot the discrepancy as she would have had she discussed it with her client. Surely clients, as consumers, have a right to assume that the professionals involved do their due diligence. As I mentioned, tip of the iceberg with this EA and I've been advised that they can be investigated for 3 of the 4 grounds for compaint by the PSRA so it will be for them to decide if the complaint can be upheld.

To answer your question regarding the deposit, I never had it. EA holds the deposit in an account for the duration of the tenancy. They are appointed to inspect the property following the tenancy and act accordingly. On one occasion, I didn't even realise a tenant had moved out until my friend saw the place on daft. EA response was they had hoped to replace the tenant before I noticed. There has also been more than one tenant so, without the inventory between tenants and the record of inspections (all of which were to be provided as per the contract), there is no way of guessing which tenant is responsible for the missing TV or the damage caused to the place.

It's not my intention to ever be a "landlord" again but if I were I've taken a few lessons from this experience so I will have to accept the small financial loss and move on.

Yes, I removed all of my furniture that I am keeping and buyer reinspected the property following this so am awaiting their response as to whether they want to proceed.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139724#Comment_122139724

I am glad you are reporting the EA. It is shocking how he conducted his business on your behalf.

I think more EAs need to be reported!

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139962#Comment_122139962

are you the EA? 🥸

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122141375#Comment_122141375

Yes Seve, are you a professional Spanish golfer?

pleh

In this market you could take anything not bolted down and some things that are and the buyer will proceed!

Former Former Former

The OP's question isn't clear.

If you are only sale agreed and have not exchanged contracts, then yes, you can pull out of the sale with no penalty.

If you're worried about being a d*ck and letting down the buyer, that's a decision for you.

I'm astonished that the EA decided for you that contents were included but was this not made clear when the ad went up on Daft/MyHome?

SupaCat95

You can report the EA all you want to the PRSA. However the reality is all the Estate Agents are old Rugby school, golf political etc etc buddies. It would be like telling a boys Uncle on him. They are all closely knit bunch. It beggers me why more people dont sell their own houses with EAs margins being 6%.

alpine4

Thanks for advice.

Have talked it over with my solicitor and spouse. Sale is proceeding, contracts have been shipped to me so expecting to receive them in the next week. Will be checking them over with a fine tooth comb before signing. Not the buyer's fault at the end of the day.

Disappointed with my experience with the EA and my missing TV but too not much else to be done. I'm sure I'll hear from them when the sale closes. I'm told the buyer gave them a piece of her mind already. 6% is mental? I'm paying 1%, grateful for that at least. Looking forward to getting back to Ireland now.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122155228#Comment_122155228

No EA in Ireland charges 6% commission on sales.

1.5% + VAT + marketing fees would be at the top end.

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122139962#Comment_122139962

How do you form that view?

Contents are normally not included, but if they are it's usually discussed. Not an ad hoc thing. If nothing is discussed,.it should not fall to the owner to accept the EA version.

Quay_Koncept

My sister was buying her first house a few years ago, all the paper work was complete etc, house had been emptied and was ready to move in. About 2 days before the keys were to be handed over the Estate agent called her to ask her if she wanted to purchase the integrated kitchen applicances, (fridge, microwave and oven / hob and dishwasher). They were all built in integrated units so she coughed up, but yes its something buyers need to watch for.

kaymin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122155228#Comment_122155228

I sold my last two houses myself. The solicitor on the first was useless so I did the legal side on the second myself. Sale closed in less than a month of going sale agreed. I hope to never have to deal with an Irish solicitor again

alpine4

White goods, I'd expect. Anything built in but this buyer seemed to think everything down to rugs, lamps and mirrors were being left behind. If I were buying a house for the first time, I'd want to put my own stamp on it with decor and furniture and personally wouldn't want second hand beds or mattresses.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122155640#Comment_122155640

Yeah, unless you're a solicitor yourself or you were selling a mortgage free property to a cash buyer who was too dumb to use a solicitor themselves, then that sounds like a straight up lie.

Non-solicitors can't give solicitors undertaking (eg, to furnish a vacate for the mortgage) etc. I'm not saying there's no solicitors so incompetent as to deal with a lay person selling their own property, but I'm fairly confident they're very hard to find.

endofrainbow

Unfortunately EA's are close knit bunch and all know each other so I'd be surprised if reporting them even led to a cursory slap on the wrist.

C3PO

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122155228#Comment_122155228

Hard to take your post seriously when you quote a figure of 6% commission! Do you really know anything about estate agents in Ireland?

mykrodot

I bought my house last year …. it was a rental property (pristine condition unusually). The house came with ALL the furnishings, fittings, cutlery, cups, lights, towel rails etc.

I found this an enormous hassle as I didn't want anything. I wanted a bare house. So it was the opposite problem. I insisted the owner cleared out the old fridge (I didnt want to have to dispose of it) and a few other bits and pieces. The rest went to charity and onto DoneDeal. It was hassle I didn't need and the first time I came across this even though this was the 5th time I purchased a house in my life. Guess it was because it was ex rental. (landlord was elderly and living in a different part of the country).

I have never in my life paid an EA more than 1.5%, usually 1%. Never 6%!!!

SupaCat95

Actually I never sold a house I only bought my first house a few years back. Even at 1% it seems like a lot of money for pixie dust. @C3PO

SupaCat95

Where I got the 6% from was years ago I thought I heard someone on the bus saying they were getting 6% commision on sales. The lady said she was completing her EA exams part time. On reflection 6 % does seem excessive. Even 1% is excessive when you consider it is making up bids, taking a few photos and posting on Daft.ie. However chasing renters and trying to secure evictions is a different matter.

Bass Reeves

I suspect in this case the property was bought by an investor that intends to rent it. It quite possible the EA knows this investor and is doing everything possible to help him. If there is fruniture in it, then its easy to let again.

kaymin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122156286#Comment_122156286

Yes mortgage free to a cash buyer but I don't see why it would have to be a cash buyer once their solicitor does their job. I'm not sure why you have the view you express given the competition authority has recommended conveyancing be opened up to professionals other than solicitors to improve efficiency and competitiveness. Let's face it, the vast majority of solicitors are useless and prolong house sales by multiples of what they should take. Responsiveness and customer service is, on average, non-existent.

Also, the solicitor I dealt with acting for the purchaser didn't have any issues with the paperwork I provided and in fact I had to tell her what to do on a couple of things she was responsible for - e.g. why the valuation for LPT purposes was appropriate - like, maybe look up the property price register.

Granted not everyone will be able to do their own legal work and no doubt the legal profession will fight their patch tooth and nail

SupaCat95

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122155648#Comment_122155648

YYeah you say that but when you are after buying, the Estate Agent has sucked every penny from you including taken the eye out of your socket and come back to pee in it. Then there is tax tax, survayers fees, facilities connection, moving in fees. You dont have much money left over it is awful tempting to have beds (not matresses), kitchen table, lockers, sofa, media cabinet, bookshelvesetc etc first day when you move in.

Of course, I suspected before the sale they took their own good furniture, put it into storage and bought a heap of cheap second hand stuff that worked (aesthetically) and then we were asked to buy it after sale agreed. I particularily hated this Estate Agent, told him we were grand and keep it. He only wanted another 5k € for it.

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122155591#Comment_122155591

how does he form that view? Simple. He is just stirring. And it wouldn’t be the first time

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122164028#Comment_122164028

You mean @Dav010 who I was replying to, or the OP with less than 10 posts?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166747#Comment_122166747

He means me, it’s to do with another thread, best to ignore.

Seve OB

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122166787#Comment_122166787

what thread is it to do with?

Because it was meant about you (the comment he quoted) as it’s clearly a wind up

And you are always at it on loads of threads

Cuddlesworth

Leaving your expensive furniture in rental house and expecting it back in good condition is your mistake not the EA's. If it's not too of the market, the rental is kitted out with the cheapest IKEA has to offer.

Assuming that the house in general was still your home during the rental and would be returned in the same condition was your mistake. Or that it would even be returned at no cost, you should be happy that process didn't take years.

Leaving the rental to be managed by a EA is your mistake, I have yet to ever hear first hand of that process going well. They go above and beyond to do the absolute bare minimum because any real problems with the rental are yours. RTB and eviction? Your problem.

Having contents included in the sale of a rental house in Ireland is mostly standard, because they are usually destined for a skip. So it's really lumping the cost onto the buyer.

Own your mistakes, move on with your life.