Shoddy Eddi (Solar) Installation almost caused a fire

Himselfe

Not sure what to do about this, but has anyone come across this before? My Eddi (recently installed as part of a solar installation by a well known company) kept losing power and I noticed that the power switch (not the one on the Eddi, the wall switch with the fuse in it) was a little stiff and wasn't lighting up properly, just barely has a red light flickering. I called the installer numerous times over the past couple of weeks about it but they never called back despite promising they would. Then this morning the power tripped in the house and I could see on the fuse board it was the 'immersion' switch that tripped, this is the one that goes to the Eddi. I went up to the hot press to check it out and there was smoke coming out of the switch and a smell of melting plastic! I've called the installer but I also opened the switch and can see its all brown and melted inside (photo attached).

The installer is coming out now to take a look at it but I'm not sure what I should do about it after they fix it. Should I be looking for it all to be taken away and get a new install, a full electrical certification of the install etc.? Should I report it or is it just bad luck or shoddy workmanship? Any thoughts?

blackbox

Was that work for by a RECI registered electrician?

the_amazing_raisin

I had an experience like this, the qualified RECI electrician overtightened the neutral terminal in the isolator switch and squeezed one of the conductors out, resulting in the remaining conductor carrying twice the current it was rated for

The solar company made it right straight away and replaced the isolator switch. They told me they'd ended up firing that particular contractor as this wasn't the first time that had happened

It's probably worth reporting the electrician to Safe Electric, I didn't in my case but I felt I should have. Given your company isn't engaging it might help them pull the finger out

Himselfe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022117#Comment_122022117

I should hope so with them being one of the largest installers in the country. I have the Safe Electric cert that was completed by the electrician on the day of installation here in front of me. Does that mean they're RECI registered?

Himselfe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022188#Comment_122022188

Wow! Crazy carry on. I'll reserve judgement until they come out and fix it then decide what to do about it. They're on the way as I type.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022188#Comment_122022188

Straight for the nuclear option?

That could be from a dodgy switch, Op said it was stiff. Most likely a loose connection though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058347013/shoddy-solar-installation-almost-caused-a-fire

You mentioned the hot press, is the Eddi in there too? Extremely dangerous if it is, switch should also be outside.

Himselfe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022244#Comment_122022244

Yes the Eddi is in the hot press with the switch on the opposite wall, also in the hotpress. Why would this be dangerous, out of interest? Also, the switch has a 13amp fuse but I notice the sticker under the Eddi says its a 16amp device. Would this be an issue?

graememk

Happens way more than you think.

Faulty switch, loose connection, maybe it was tight, but moved a fraction and loosened when screwed back into place.

Not great that it took them so long to come out to an intermittent power to the eddi (forewarning that something was up). Possibly should have said to turn it off in the meantime.

Chris_5339762

During our Eddi install he didn't wire up the thermostat correctly and it wouldn't heat. It was early spring, so there was still some boosting going on, but we only spotted it due to my nerdy weather station which I could attach a probe thermometer to. It spotted that the temperature was not increasing when the sun was out.

Mind you, the plumber installed the central heating up back to front so I'm convinced that nearly every single tradesman in the entire country is a cowboy now. There have been so many examples and experiences. Why can't we properly vet them?

graememk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022303#Comment_122022303

An Eddi can run an immersion up to 3.6kW or 16 amps. But immersions are only about 12 amps.

What tripped? Was it the RCD? (That's what usually goes when things get a bit melty)

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022303#Comment_122022303

A few issues here then. It shouldn't have been installed on a fused spur, 20 amp double pole switch is required.

You can't install in a hot press because if something is to ignite then there's usually lots of kindling and other materials to help take the rest of your house with it.

It's a breach of regulations to install any hot water switching device in a hot press.

Himselfe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022328#Comment_122022328

The main breaker tripped along with the breaker for the immersion.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022424#Comment_122022424

From the image, it looks like it shorted to earth.

Himselfe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022438#Comment_122022438

I've no idea, not an electrical expert by any means.

Looking at the image there appears to be damage to the neutral cable itself, and the earth seems to be just hanging about exposed and not connected. I didn't connect or remove any cables, just unscrewed the front plate from the housing

Himselfe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022358#Comment_122022358

Wow! This is really giving me the rage. I didn't know any of this.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022454#Comment_122022454

These are the specific sections.

Himselfe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022513#Comment_122022513

Thanks for this, if I had that book here to hand I'd literally be throwing it at them when they arrive! I'll have to just throw the proverbial book at them instead.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022633#Comment_122022633

No worries, good luck with it and let us know the outcome.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122022513#Comment_122022513

That's……interesting, if not a little worrying. I wonder how many houses in Ireland would fail that provision in the regs. Quite a few I'd imagine - my own for starters. If I read that right, you can't have the "sink/bath" along with on/off inside the hotpress then.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024468#Comment_122024468

No switches or switching devices for the immersion inside the hot press is my interpretation of it anyway.

bullit_dodger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024489#Comment_122024489

Yup that would be my take too. Course the regs improve/change all the times as new practices are decided to make our lives safer. No idea if this reg was in place 30-40 years ago when my house was originally built - but my suspicion is that it wasn't and why we see so many houses with the bath/sink switch in the hot press.

Intersting though.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122024500#Comment_122024500

Exactly that, my house isn't up to todays regs either. Doesn't mean it's unsafe.

Himselfe

Thanks all for the replies.

They came yesterday and replaced the damaged spur with a like for like replacement. I mentioned that it may not be up to the job as per @allinthehead's post yesterday, saying it should be a 20 amp double pole switch. He showed me the installation manual for the Eddi which states in paragraph 8.3.2 that it can indeed be a 13A fused spur outlet as long as the load is less than 3kw, which he tested and it is.

https://www.myenergi.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/eddi-Installation-Manual-Rev-2.0.1-July-2022.pdf

He put the issue down to a faulty spur. The cables all seemed to be tightly in place, although that could be as a result of them having melted into their slots.

On the point of the spur switch being inside the hot press, the Eddi was put in to replace the previous immersion which we installed over 10 years ago when we redid the plumbing and heating in the house. I suppose it meant one less cable to run for the spur as it was already there (they put in a new spur for the Eddi at the time). He said the regs sometimes don't make sense or aren't practical in real world situations (I've experience of this myself in another field) and that they don't take account of when there is nowhere else to put it. The hot press opens into the bathroom.

Unfortunately I really don't know enough about it to be arguing with him. He seemed genuine and was patient answering all my questions. While he fixed it and everything is working now as it should be, I'm not too happy about it and I'll be chasing it up with the installers and asking for an independent review of the electrics.

On a side note, after the solar and Eddi installation in January we noticed our bills weren't dropping by much which we put down to it being winter etc. However the chap yesterday noticed that the CT clamps were installed and configured incorrectly meaning the Eddi thought it was getting solar when in fact it was getting grid power and costing us more money! So that's another thing I'll have to ask them about.

Out of interest, should the spur be warm to the touch? I think it feels slightly warm, definitely not cold as you would expect a plastic housing to feel, but this may be normal. I've no idea.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122025935#Comment_122025935

It's warm because the fuse is heating up inside the housing, a load of 3kw over extended periods should not be on a 13 amp spur. The regs are very clear regarding the Eddi, at least to me anyway. The Eddi can go anywhere else really, it just involves more work for them.

Himselfe

Looking through the Eddi installation manual it shows that the 13A spur is used in every configuration to connect the Eddi to the mains. The 20A double pole switches are installed as isolators between the Eddi and the heating elements. Based on this I can only assume that the 13A spur is suitable. Thats my interpretation as a lay person anyway.

Either way the spur caught fire for a reason. It may well have been a faulty spur, but I need to be certain so the installer has agreed to have the entire installation independently checked and recertified. He's also having a look at the regs re the location of switches inside hot presses that open into bathrooms.

allinthehead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122026694#Comment_122026694

Think about all immersion switches, they're 20 amp for a reason. 13 amp fuses get too hot when running at 3kw for long periods, honestly the manual can say whatever it wants it doesn't change the laws of physics.

I've seen loads of spurs melt when connected to immersion elements.