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Biden v Trump (and one or two others) The US Presidential election 2024. Read OP before posting

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  • 15-04-2024 11:11am
    #1
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,141 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭


    Neutral ground for all your election talk. However some ground rules. This is not a thread for you to say the sort of things that may have got you banned from one or other existing thread covering the 2 candidates. It is not a thread for "Sleepy Joe", "Dementia Donald" or the like. It's not a thread for posters to accuse other posters of "supporting a rapist". It is not a thread to discuss Trump's legal cases - that can be done in the Trump thread. Basic civility is expected.

    Any questions, PM me.

    Threadbanned users:

    ……

    ……

    ……

    et al



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭ToweringPerformance


    Personally i just think it's a sad state of affairs Biden and Trump is the best America can do for their people. I mean come on now it's an absolute farce it's come to this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 753 ✭✭✭concerned_tenant


    The debates will make interesting viewing, that's for sure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,056 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    I wonder if the "debates" will even happen. The last ones were not debates but bad-tempered mud-slinging. They (The moderators/studios) should put them into sound-proof booths and cut off their microphones once their time is up.

    I doubt there will be any shockers: The Democrats will focus on abortion rights, Trump, Jan 6, Jobs, The Economy, Russia

    The Republicans will focus on the Mexican Border, Biden's age, "Woke" agenda, stolen election, Ukraine funding.

    They are going to be inarticulate and ugly - preaching to their core demographics with no chance or even attempt to sway undecideds. No information of any substance such as how policies can be funded or implemented.

    It will be interesting to see if the moderators clamp down on Trump referring to stolen election allegations or on Biden referring to Trump's personal suits.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,595 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    I don't think Trump will actually be willing to do debates tbh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,977 ✭✭✭Shoog


    its a product of a failing right wing (cannot get traction on its policies) trying to generate a support base around culture wars and wedge issues. In that scenario ultra tribalism drives out progressive dynamic candidates on either side. Its the ultimate turf war. Where it will goto if the Republicans lose again ( as it looks like they will) is horrific to contemplate.

    The Republicans are in an existential crisis and all Biden has to do is not fie to win - which is exactly why he is the President.

    Tragic end times stuff.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,275 ✭✭✭twinytwo


    You can hardly just blame the right wing for the current state of american politics? The left are just as responsible. The Democrats are just as dysfunctional as the Republicans. They are just as crazy as each other and leap further and further to the extremes each year.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,350 ✭✭✭ronjo


    If you take it as just Trump v Biden how do you classify Biden as being extreme?

    Trump has repeated slagged off America recently and said he believes Putin over US Intelligence. To me thats pretty extreme.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,977 ✭✭✭Shoog


    ... And yet the democrats have had consistently higher share of the vote for around 20 years at this stage. Gerrymandering and the perversions of the electoral system are the only reason that the Republicans are still in the race at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,624 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    Agreed. At most he might do one for Fox if they agree to whichever moderator he picks and knowing he won't be pushed back on, but I doubt he'll agree to do any others, and will likely just say those channels/mods are biased against him (rather than biased for him) and it won't be fair.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,595 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Ah yes student debt forgiveness versus a president egging on an insurrection and attempting to coerce a foreign leader to provide dirt on a political opponent. Biden has been a rational political leader. Trump amounted to narcissism and incendiary on a constant basis. They're absolutely not like for like.

    The GOP have largely mirrored Trump too.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 433 ✭✭Stanley 1


    Maybe if he is in a cell he will partake………



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,021 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    If They happen at all. Trump probably thinks he has it won just like the Primaries and that he does not need to do debates with Biden.

    IIt US a sad state of affairs alright in Anerica still it coukd be worse. Elon Musk ir that Rapper could have been running you know the one who supported Trump. They are both just as bad as Trump or worse even as at least Musk is intelligent and clever in some ways but a bit stone mad crazy ain others like buying Twitter really was not his best move.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,800 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It's not the best they can do, it's just what they have done. Politics has a habit of not always bringing forth the "best" people by whatever metric that is judged.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,746 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Would Fox have anyone still on their books who would be fairly impartial if they hosted a debate? Neil Cavuto, maybe? Chris Wallace, who hosted the Fox 2020 debate, seemed to hark back to the old days of news in America, when the news was delivered by someone in a suit for half an hour without any editorial comment. Since he left, they no longer have someone of that calibre.

    Biden will want to have a debate. His whole thing is about politics being normal, so he'll call for the usual trappings of an American presidential election. Trump doesn't seem that interested in appealing to the middle ground, whatever may be left of it, so I don't really know how much use he'll see in debating him. 50/50 that he just drops another interview with Tucker Carlson on X while Biden does a town hall on CNN.



  • Registered Users Posts: 92 ✭✭Poon Tang


    So, are you saying trump only has the maga base and nothing else? Surely their numbers are not large enough to win him re-election? The fact the polls still have him as favourite, would seem to suggest his appeal is greater than this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,529 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    what are you basing that on?

    Trump has been calling for debates again for weeks while Biden rebuffs of course Trump does “he has nothing better to do”



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,746 ✭✭✭✭briany


    For starters, Trump would not participate in the Republican primary debates. For him, they were a waste of time because he was already fairly well ahead in the polls and so he didn't need to attend them. To Trump, debates are not for honest discussions of policy and informing voters. Their only utility to him is gaining popularity.

    By a similar token, Trump has slight leads in almost all of the battleground states at this point in time and his rhetoric has only become more extreme since 2020, so if he can maintain those leads, he will not want to risk energising moderate voters against by telling them everything he's been saying or giving Biden a platform to point the finger in his face about it. He will speak to the 74 million who voted for him in 2020, in full light of his craziness, while banking on the Biden vote to wane even just enough to take those battlegrounds.

    Trump can talk about wanting debates as a way of posturing toward his own base and shoring up the conspiracy theory that Biden's team are trying to shield their man from public speaking due to cognitive issues, but as the real debate time draws near, Trump will simply say that he cannot get an impartial moderator as an excuse to stay out of them and his base will accept this readily. This is if that battleground lead is maintained. He'll be much more amenable to doing them if Biden starts drawing even in polls, however.



  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 76,141 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    The OP states where the Trump trial(s) can be discussed, and it's not in this thread



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,529 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I agree on the analysis on trump not actually wanting to do debates but I equally don’t see Biden as wanting debates as a “normalcy” move. At best if Biden acquiesces the RNC would have to rejoin the commission on presidential debates, having shown themselves the door a few years back.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,746 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I don't think Biden would call for debates by literally saying he wants to maintain political normalcy, but just because he is supposed to be the traditional candidate who is adhering to protocol and protocol for the last 7 or 8 decades in the US has included a round of debates between the two leading candidates. Biden not wanting to have a debate would imply from him that he doesn't think any dialogue can be had and even though that may be true, it's a grim message to send to potential voters who may want Biden and the Democrats to fend off MAGA craziness in the short term but also reestablish some sort of political normality in the long, and that's something that common sense would tell us is going to be difficult to achieve if not even token efforts are made to reach out to the other side.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 82,529 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users Posts: 18,458 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Biden should absolutely call loudly for debates, and if they don't happen he should repeat over and over that Trump is a coward who won't face him. That sort of simplistic messaging is exactly what gets through to a large swath of US voters. No matter what excuses are thrown around it will still eat at them that their guy is a coward.

    Not much else to say if we can't point out the rather large elephant in the room regarding one of the candidates.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,529 ✭✭✭✭Overheal




  • Registered Users Posts: 23,559 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Trumps calendar is very busy so I don't think he'll be able to fit in an in person debate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    IMHO they the republicans have totally have screwed up with abortion now being pretty much banned

    This will drive out people to vote for Biden while on flip side thinking they won many “conservatives” might stay at home



  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭KevMayo88


    Biden especially in the last few weeks, has looked very frail. I honestly do not see him physically or mentally able to participate in three whole 90-minute live debates with Trump this autumn. I wish Biden the very best with his health and hope he has many more years, but it is obvious he is simply too old for the campaign to come. Whatever about Trump, he at least seems to have vigour and an energy that Biden does not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 82,529 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    huh?

    Falls asleep in public. At important functions, too.

    Im sure if Joe spent 2 hours a day doing makeup or a full year out of his first term in office just golfing he might have the glow up you're looking for but he’s busy doing the job. As for energy vigor and mental capacity take a look, Joe has plenty and runs circles around the congress

    https://www.youtube.com/live/nFVUPAEF-sw?si=Z6Ip4Xio7X4-0H4s



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭Field east


    vigour and energy - it’s all relative. On the law of averages one of them has to have more vigour and energy than the other but is there a major difference between them?. Apart from the vigour and energy issue what would concern me more is what Trump might spout out with all that V and E



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,601 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Biden last month did the State of the Union address.

    Epic fail there.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭KevMayo88


    Trump is regularily holding rallies where he stands speaking for 1-2 hours at a time, without any signs of tiredness or fatigue. Biden couldn't even do a live speech from the Oval Office after the Iran attack on Isreal.



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