Making 50s house A rated.

Hack

We can't find a new build we want and considering an older one and they all seem to need work. Does anyone know how to bring a B3 rating 256 square meter two storey house up to an A rating and to seal more of the heat in? Is it a money pit that will still be cold despite the work on windows and insulation on floors etc? The BER certificate says suspended floors need to be done and agent says walls insulated, but the walls are "poor" according to the BER cert.

Rows Grower

Probably easier and cheaper to knock it and start from scratch.

Padre_Pio

Is it a actually cold?

A B3 house could be quite warm, though the scale reflects energy efficiency, not heat retention.

Water John

If it's already a B3, it isn't bad. The suspended floors would be the biggest weakness IWT. Consider digging them out and putting in 150mm insulation topped with underfloor heating. The walls can't be that poor if it's a B3. Using the House Retrofit Scheme seems the logical option. Probably a more in depth engineer's report, detailing exactly the works, a cost estimate and the BER to be achieved.

Hack

It looks like it would be but you are right, it might be okay. I don't want it losing too much heat. We lived in a D1 rated house previously and it was hard to keep heated for long. The BER report for this B3 rated house (and it's a big house with four bedrooms and two sitting rooms) said it has the potential to reach B1.

Water John

I think it has a very good rating, if it has suspended floors. That to me, seems the, big fix. I would use that opportunity to consider underfloor heating. It's a comfort you'd never regret doing.

Hack

It would be ideal but would cost a lot of time and money we don't have unfortunately!

Water John

Well, move in and do it in 2/3 years time.

Hack

A great idea. I'll get an estimate cost. I wonder would a heat pump do anything too or a waste of time in an old house?

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963078#Comment_121963078

A heat pump in an indoor house would cost you a fortune to run.

Seai Will only grant assist heat pumps in houses which meet certain standards

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963078#Comment_121963078

You'll need to study your heat loss to determine whether a heat pump will work.

monseiur

Is the house detached or semi D ? Thoroughly check roof/attic area, do this on a wet day, look out for dry/wet rot, woodworm, leaks around chimney flashing's, in lead valleys etc.

Check walls for any major cracks or evidence that such cracks may have been recently repaired, refilled - ignore minor hairline type cracks. Suspended floors may be a blessing in disguise as it should be easier so cheaper to remove and replace with screed floor over insulation also new copper pipework for central heating will go here.

If budget allows consider external insulation, this is an ideal time to do this as all windows & doors are being replaced. If external insulation is not a runner you'll have to insulate the ''outside'' internal walls. Also fit a minimum of 300mm insulation in attic.

Grants may be available, check the SEAI website for details.

Budget depending on many, many variables should be €100k to €150k

Hack

Thanks a million for that. It is a detached house. We actually had a lot of those problems in the previous house!

Anaki r2d2

b3 is very good for 50’s house. Solar panels will improve your rating. Air to water is expensive to install and costly to run, unless house is very airtight.

do you want A rating for comfort levels or low cost energy bills, or for environmental reasons?

If you know what you trying to achieve, it’s easier to work out the payback.

I have a 1995 house that I took from D2 to B3. That took 18k. Insulation, boiler upgrade, doors etc. hard to get better than a b for me, without massive remediation and cost. Cost that will never pay for it self.

Hack

Screenshot_20240401-193144.png

These are the recommendations on the BER cert to bring it to a B1.

Hack

Thanks for that. Yes it's for comfort levels mainly. It sounds like a B3,2 or 1 is great to get for such an old house.

mickdw

I'd leave a b3 as is.

It's likely better than a large portion of the housing stock at that. To achieve an A2, you will be looking at upgrade the entire fabric of the building and then going air to water or something similar.

I don't think you would ever get your money back.

sell9999

For what it's worth we got 500mm of EPS bead pumped into the cavity under the suspended floor and the underfloor wall vents closed up.
1930s house with an F BER rating beforehand, also got triple glazed windows, cavity wall insulated and attic rafters and floor insulated.
We went to a B2 rating after the work, the floor changes are not reflected in BER ratings.
Getting floors insulated made a huge difference and the house retains heat really well, we spoke to Viking House beforehand as they have done a lot of work in this area so would recommend talking to them as there can be some concerns about the beams and moisture.
We didn't put in a vapour barrier on the ground under the beads. Other people I know with suspended floors used rockwool in the joists with a membrane underneath.
We had the work done twelve years ago and no issues so far, I do keep an eye on humidity readings in the rooms just for peace of mind.

Anaki r2d2

attic and cavity wall insulation is not that expensive. But you would need to know what you have to see what. you can add to the house. How thick is the attic insulation? Are the walls cavity pumped?

Attic insulation was the biggest impact in my house.

Hack

Brilliant suggestions. I'm not sure yet how thick the attic insulation is. I don't think the walls are cavity pumped.

Water John

You need to know the structure of the walls. A BER doesn't tell you that.

Anaki r2d2

you can figure it out, go up to the attic and take pictures.

If the house has wall vents, unscrew and peak inside. You should be able to tell if they are pumped. Look for beads of polystyrene type material. Or go outside and see if you can see tell tail signs of the wall being drilled, one euro sized holes every so often.

If the walls have ventilation holes, are they sleeved? Like with a 4 or 6 inch plastic pipe

Hack

I'll do that. Thanks a million.

JDigweed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121963078#Comment_121963078

Forget about a heat pump unless your house has a high level of air tightness. Solar would be the most straightforward option as your ber rating is already very good for an old house. If you stretch the budget and include a battery, you'll reduce your electricity bill significantly over the course of a year.

Busman Paddy Lasty

You are in a very good situation. With that rating you could move in and not have to do anything at all. House seems well looked after to be a B3, assuming no solar PV or Heat Pump now.

Untouched 1950s houses where I live are roughly E2. Ours was when we bought. IMO biggest gain for you would be replace suspended timber floor with insulated concrete/screed floor. Obviously you don't have to anything if you move in and like the comfort levels.

Bensimp

I bought a 1950s house about 2 years ago. It was a D2 BER. We ended up with an A2 rating in the, if we got solar it would be an A1.

we put 100 mm insulation on the internal walls, in the attic and under the floor, triple glazed ( double can be just as good) and put in air to water heat pump.

The best thing we did was get rid of the suspended floors was to "drop them ". You get an insulated floor (100mm) with concrete screed with your Under Floor heating pipes, also you get higher ceilings, mine are now 9 foot. but it is also air tight from the bottom up.

I found the house quite draughty at first as the builder put in bog standard flat vents on the walls. I then bought external and internal anti draft vents ( costs about €350 for 10 ) and the draughts are gone and house can still breathe ( you need vents in well insulated house so it can breathe)

wolfyboy555

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121964844#Comment_121964844

Hi do you have a link to those vents you bought? Cheers.

Busman Paddy Lasty

@Bensimp can you DM me a link to those anti-draft vents please?

We did similar but kept gas heating for budget reasons. B1 rating now but all insulation up to A levels, gas pulling it down. Advisory report says replacing boiler with A2W heat pump would be an A2 rating.