21st Lancers 1898

Monty71

Hello,

I am researching the possible identity of my great grandfather who I believe was a soldier in the 21st Lancers from the mid 1890s onwards (he was English). He fought at the battle of Omdurman on September 2nd 1898 in the Anglo Egyptian war.

I have very little info on the identity of my great grandfather, only what I have managed to decipher through DNA matches and a process of elimination. His son (my grandfather) was illegitimate. Likewise, I have only very loose info on my great grandmother. The story goes that she was working as a maid for a large house in Ireland and became pregnant during her time there - this would have been around November 1898 for my grandfather to have been born in August 1899. She was English and I believe the house she worked in may have been Aclare House. I have strong DNA links (through Ancestry DNA) with the descendants of the 21st Lancer soldier, but if he is the father of my illegitimate grandfather I need to work out how he and my great grandmother came to be in the same place!

In order to ascertain if he really was my G grandfather certain bits of information need to fit in time-wise with certain facts, so I have a number of questions that if anyone can help me answer I'd be extremely grateful!

Firstly, does anyone know exactly when the British troops came back to the UK after the the battle of Omdurman in 1898?

How did they return and where to, how long did it take? I'm assuming they departed from Alexandria, Egypt but where did they arrive - one of the English ports or Dublin?

I understand the 21st Lancers were relocated to Ireland in the late 1890s, does anyone know anymore about this i.e. exact dates and locations?

Do passenger lists exist of the ferries between England and Ireland in the late 1890s?

And one final question and a bit of a long shot. Does anyone know of a connection with the soldiers of the 21st Lancers and Aclare House, Ardee, Co. Meath in late 1898? Aclare House was owned by Rear Admiral Corbett Singleton at the time, could he have had a military connection with the Lancers, in particular my possible 21st Lancer great grandfather?

Sorry this is complicated! Any help with how to progress with this would be very much appreciated, thank you.

B

Monty71

(Just want to add, I do have a name for the great grandfather and great grandmother)

kildarejohn

A quick search of the Find my past newspaper collection for late 1898 came up with the following -

So if your mans name is Tilney, job done. Otherwise, its going to take a lot of trawling through newspaper databases and military records

pinkypinky

You need to investigate if there is a regimental museum or association for the 21st lancers.

Troop movements definitely exist. You'll need to research in the UK National Archives for this info if there isn't a regimental museum.

There are no passenger lists of ferries because Ireland and Britain were the same country. They did not track this.

I'm sure you've seen this on Aclare House on the Meath History Hub.

FWIW, I'd go about this research question differently. Find DNA matches to the candidate and use WATO+ to model it. You might never get the conception story, but you're only talking about a great-grandfather. DNA should solve this.

Monty71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121919747#Comment_121919747

Thanks for the reply, thats extremely helpful. I've started to build a WATO+ tree and it's proving very interesting, I think once I've got to grips with it it should provide some answers. I wasn't aware of such a tool so thanks for pointing me in that direction.

Mick Tator

The National Army Museum is a good online resource. https://www.nam.ac.uk/

Do regimental records exist? If so, they will detail the next posting and ports of em/de barkation.

The Singletons were a Limerick family. owners of Quinn Abbey. (I don't know where the admiral fits in that tree).

Notmything

21 lancers appear to have been in Egypt until at least October 1899, they are on the Irish establishment in March 1900 but doesn't say which barracks.

*Edit looks like they returned to the UK at the end of 1899 and moved to Dublin.

Monty71

Thanks everyone, very helpful info.

So the WATO+ tree has given an 80% score for the soldier being the father of my grandfather. I'll call him, the soldier, F.

F was one of three brothers. The score for his brothers were: 17% for brother J and 3% for brother G.

We have DNA matches with descendants of brothers J and G suggesting second/third cousins of my dad, this is why I have always suspected F of being the unknown great grandfather (there are no known descendants of F beyond his own children so no DNA matches unfortunately). But I think the 80% score pretty much confirms that he is the one I'm looking for? Now it's just a case of researching his whereabouts and if he was home in time from Egypt! Next step is to request military records - I've discovered a 21st Lancers museum in Nottinghamshire so going to contact them.

Thanks again.

Andy Williams

I'm currently researching Private 3080 Frank Pedder (1870 to 1903) of the 21st Lancers. He was in the battle of Omdurman in Sudan in 1898. He returned to Middlesex in 1899 to get married before being posted with his unit to Dublin. He died in Dublin on 22nd August 1903.