Mobile phone signal booster... would Band3/1800mhz model suffice for typical home use?

actua11

I am a little more unsure about this this topic than I thought I might be, but can't seem to find a definite answer anywhere.

So, I am considering to buy a signal booster, for a home in a patchy/o.k signal area, and have points to get good signal to relay to inside the home,

But I am unsure what spec device I might need, rather to avoid spending on a multi band device. I see 2G in Ireland is at 1800MHz/900MHz, and 4G at 1800MHz/800MHz. So I see both work on B3 1800MHz...so this would meet my need, no? (3G is not needed in this case)

So my question is.. why does 2G/3G/4G each come on 2 frequencies for each? (e.g 4G @ both 800MHz and 1800MHz)

Are they simultaneous/complimentary signals that cover each other? Does each transmitter just use one of 1800MHz or 800MHz individually? The operators are compatible with both, so I am not sure what the difference is, or why just an 1800MHz on it's own would not help with 2G/4G without the need for a tri-band 800/900/1800MHz model?

Any help with this is appreciated, and apologies if I am wrong on some details, I have just gotten a little confused with this.

The Cush

We have three mobile repeaters in our family group, running for a couple of years now.

Just a few questions, what do you want the repeater for, calls or calls and data?

Are you rural or urban?

How far away are your nearest mobile base stations? See Comreg's siteviwer website to see what mobile masts are in your vicinity.

What mobile operators are used in the house?

actua11

Thanks for the reply,

So 1) Repeater is for calls (4G is just a bonus if possible. Though could an 1800MHz repeater cover both?)

2/3) Location is rural, just a little down from Kippure, so in a slight valley for reception I'd say

4) Phones are running on the 3 network in the house

The Cush

Low frequency 7OO MHz (B28), 800 MHz (B20) and 900 MHz (B8) are classed as mobile coverage bands due to their very good signal propagation characteristics, the signal travels further and allows for indoor coverage, particularly good for rural coverage. Low data capacity.

900 MHz band very good for 2G GSM calls/ 3G calls & data. 3G to be switched of over the coming years to be replaced by 4G

High frequency 1800 MHz (B3), 2100 MHz (B1) and 2600 MHz (B7) are classed as mobile capacity bands and provide high capacity coverage in dense urban population areas, data capacity drops off with distance. Used for 4g & 5g data. Proximity to mast is important for these bands.

As you're in a rural area I would recommend a single band 900 MHz band repeater for calls and 3G data. My brother has this setup and has worked without issue for the last few years (installed 2017)

But I see Stella Doradus, an Irish manufacturer of mobile repeaters based in Waterford, has now discontinued the single band 900 MHz band repeater. They now have a dual band 800/900 MHz repeater for 2G/3G calls, 3G & 4G data. Another brother of mine has this repeater with 2 internal antennas attached. He went from no mobile signal indoors to excellent mobile call coverage and 4G data upstairs and downstairs

https://stelladoradus.com/product/classic-repeater-eu/

Stella Doradus no longer sell direct to the public but via local distributors, in Ireland this is Novatel in Buttevant Cork.

Regarding 1800 MHz, I have a multi-band repeater and live in a rural area with the mast about 9 km distant, I see very little activity on this band, most is on the three low frequency bands and the 2100 MHz band.

You didn't say how far away any mobile masts are from your location, use Comreg's Siteviewer website to see what masts are in your vicinity and google maps to calculate the distance

Post any other questions you might have.

actua11

Thank you so much for this, it's exactly the info I was looking for, but couldn't seem to find elsewhere, I do appreciate it a lot.

So distance is <1km .. about 800m or so to the 2 nearest results according to the comreg site, so distance maybe is not the biggest issue, but maybe the obstruction of buildings/wooded areas/ the crest of the hill? Maybe following this finder guide from Stella Doradus can help me be sure what we already have to work from?

But yes I can see, ideally best case is to have the 900 MHz repeater... or to maybe skip past 3G to just go straight for the 800+900 MHz version to 'future-proof' it for 4G, when 3G is switched off.

Ah, and I did see Novatel. It's where my confusion came from. I couldn't see why to offer both a 2 band 800+900 MHz model and also an 800+900+1800 MHz model. I mind was thinking "Surely both cover calls and data, what is the difference?" But if masts all do transmit all these frequencies, it is simply for full coverage to cover both over distance (800+900MHz) and close proximity dense areas (1800MHz) .. if I am saying this right? I had somehow thought 900MHz might only be transmitted on rural masts, and 1800MHz only within urban areas.

But I think it all does make a lot more sense now, so really thank you so much for your help with this.

The Cush

Download the NetMonster app, it will display what bands you're connecting to.

All the big masts will have all bands active but I'm not so sure about more rural masts, maybe the lower bands only.

When you download NetMonster you will see the phone connecting to more than one band from time to time. You'll see something like LTE-A 2100 + 700 + 800 + 1800, it varies.

This is know as Carrier Aggregation (CA), it combines carriers across bands to increase download capacity.

smuggler.ie

Third party app perhaps will show info in more "user friendly" manner.

On android dial *#0011# to see info

actua11

So I did manage to do some tests over the weekend. I found the best spot for signal I could, but got a little of a mixed bag I think. In the same spot, switching data on/off every few minutes to see what it could connect to, and it was a little bit of everything.

I added GSM results here too as.. for ARFCN in the 100's range.., that has to be GSM-900, no? So that alone rules out my idea for a lone 1800MHz model. Just for reliable signal, I'll need a model to cover 900MHz for sure.

For LTE ..Band7/2600MHz seems just way to weak to be reliable. So maybe a combo of B3/B20 should suit to give best reasonable reception for 4G in my case?

So I think on these results I should try for a tri-band B3/B8/B20 model? So 900MHz (For B8 3G I can get on this too + GSM-900) + 800MHz (B20 4G coverage) + 1800MHz (B3 4G + maybe GSM fill in too?) I this this tri-band idea is the best all round compromise solution, possibly?

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910200#Comment_121910200

smuggler.ie above is probably the best person here to interpret your readings.

Regarding the 1800 MHz band, I not sure if there's any GSM infill there, 3G UMTS maybe?

For repeaters the more bands you can afford the better, but multi-band repeaters are expensive. If your main requirement is mobile call/text coverage is a multi-band repeater overkill?

What service do you currently use for broadband?

Here in this house we use mobile hotspotting for internet and it does what we want until NBI fibre arrives. And it was very good when our old WISP shut down and we installed the repeater, way better than our old WISP.

But since we installed the repeater back in summer 2022 the signal had degraded, this happened about a year ago, speculation it was due to reducing power use at rural masts to save on electricity costs and this is noticeable at a distance of 8-9 km from the mast.

The Cush

Btw, what app were you using to gather the signal data?

smuggler.ie

Had a look in stelladoradus web - they link cellmapper Frequency Calculator in their guide. 102,105,106 translate to B1 (2100MHz) GSM900. Cellmapper does have app that collects data and then places on the map

Looking at comreg, three only provide 2/3G in the area. Key-in your eircode in coverage checker

from images you provided, B20 indicate best RSRP/RSRQ/RSSI combination, B3 second. However, at the distance to the mast of >1km metrics still seem poor. Perhaps you are connecting to mast further away - check cell ID's and see if you can locate them on cellmapper

Also, limit your phone to 3G network only and see how it look there. Currently, as far i can see, calls are going through 3G on three, perhaps the same with other providers. Did the test call with my DECT phone over router

Again, this is just guidance, measurements taken on the phone wont accurately reflect what will be with other equipment, especially outside with antenna mounted up high

If cant claim the roof, at least try in the attic, if avail.

The Cush

Arfcn 102, 105 & 106 are 900 GSM in the calculator

smuggler.ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121911769#Comment_121911769

stand corrected - didnt change 4G to GSM on net type

actua11

Thanks again for all these replies, I learning quite a bit, quite quickly with all this help.

So, for the mast, I wrote wrong before, I should've written "Three Rock", though with that, on the comreg site, it shows as Vodafone only coming from the Three Rock mast? Which does make sense as, just with a quick check again today, it seems yes the signal is coming from the bottom, uphill. (Which in my very basic mind, with tv towers/transmitters just assumed "Signal comes from high place downward to cover area") but in this case it is coming from lower ground for sure. 

On the comreg coverage checker, for Three it is labeled as 'Fair' coverage. At ground level, it can be poor to none, but knowing I could get that 4G reception from a roof height with a line of sight downhill.. it explains a lot more why some parts had better reception. (My mistake this whole time looking uphill) I am not expecting any metrics to be good, even with a 'line of sight', from the little valley in the hill we are, I can't see the area where the signal is coming from, beneath the crest of the hill. Patchy/poor 4G reception will do as a bonus for whatever I can get of it, I am far from expecting any miracle with this. Is is just good to know that 900MHz is 100% a must for what I need.

For broadband, here, it is just an old Telecom Éireann line, that gives max 2Mb, but really is doing well at 1 or 1.2Mb in daily use. The line has actually been down since the recent snow and doesn't seem to be getting repaired anytime soon, so it's why I'm looking to have something of a more reliable fall back with calls/internet, in case it happens again in future. (With no internet, even wifi calling is not a solution in this case) I'm actually sending this reply with my phone outside, hotspotting back to the laptop inside, but definitely more practical if I can manage to get some signal inside too with this potential setup

Oh and the app I used was "Network Signal guru", seemed to work fine for me :)

The Cush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121914505#Comment_121914505

Well at least the 800 MHz 4G broadband signal should be no worse than your current copper line ADSL, might even be an improvement.

My brother, with the single band 900 MHz repeater, I've noticed 3G broadband can zip along quiet nicely, probably because it's not as busy as the 4G service. It might even outperform your copper line connection.

With the new information about your nearest Three mast, how far is this from you?

Have you ever considered Starlink for your broadband and even with VoIP for calls as a replacement for the landline. As an interim solution until fibre is rolled out.

Last summer another brother of mine got rid of his landline broadband/phone, similar degraded rural copper line and speeds as yours ; they also got rid of an expensive satellite broadband service for his wife WFH. Replaced it with Starlink and VoIP, best service they've had at the house since they moved in more than a decade ago.

The Cush

Just installed the Guru app, forcing 3G on my phone

UARFCN 2962 (900 MHz UMTS), mast approx 9 km distant, repeater active

Speed test 6.5 down/2.3 up

This is better than my old WISP, and my brother's old copper line.

Tested 4G too, EARFCN 500 (2100 MHz LTE)

Speed test 70 down/12.5 up

Of course these figures are only a snapshot in a single moment of time and will vary in actual use.

danielsk

Have you managed to find a solution yet? I wanted to share some potentially helpful information with you regarding in-building 4G signal boosters. You might find it useful to explore the options available on https://www.uctel.cо.uk/signal-boosters/4g-signal-booster. Uctel provides a range of solutions tailored for the UK, which could be just what you need to improve your connectivity.