RSA change to tractor use laws

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: No quitten we're whelan on to chitchat 11.

selectamatic

https://www.midwestradio.ie/index.php/news/74691-chaos-in-the-construction-industry-as-new-regulations-imposed-on-the-driving-of-a-tractor-for-commercial-reasons-according-to-roscommon-deputy

Wonder is this a case of the RSA mistakingly opening a can of worms that'll be ammended quickly or is it more than that?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121858234#Comment_121858234

RSA has not taught this one out I say. There is a push to bring in some sort of higher grade tractor driving icience for certain types of tractor's.Technically this would mean you could turn up with a tractor and trailer to do a truck test.

Lime Tree Farm

"It noted that the W licence is a national licence and is not covered by the EU Driver Licence Directive."

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/fci-raises-concerns-over-tractor-driver-licence-changes/

tanko

I see the RSA has done a U turn on this already, they’re going to have a review and public consultation on it whatever that means.

BENDYBINN

Puttin a reasonable weight limit on what a tractor trailer can carry would be the sensible solution…………..

PoorFarmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121864836#Comment_121864836

A lot of agricultural work would entail pulling similar weights as construction work though. Would that solution have to transfer across to agriculture too? We are back to needing a truck license to do certain agricultural work then again possibly.

kerryjack

Plenty of ould lads driving tractors and dump trailers as well you see them In the council and OPW as well. They haven't a notion of sitting a truck test, The RSA haven't the manpower to bring in some form of tractor test and are struggling with car and truck test already although I am sure they will be some private crowd will be ready to take advantage of it because they will be money in it.

The11Duff

Can anyone tell me why the authorities in this country are so willing to screw over every small time operator in every industry they can think off???

Hard Knocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121865732#Comment_121865732

More admin meaningless jobs in the name of H&S

KaneToad

Or maybe they are concerned about safety?

SouthWesterly

I listened to a broadcast a few months ago and was horrified to find out kids who can't even drive a car legally can be given a W licence with not even a theory test and can drive on a main road towing a tanker full of slurry.

I'm not a farmer.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121879567#Comment_121879567

Fairly certain a theory test is needed for a W licence but I agree with your sentiment.

The law of a 16 year old driving a tractor is from the days of the Meitheal where the biggest tractor was a harmless little Massey 135 capable of towing less than a decent modern SUV.

The law does need some ammending

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121879602#Comment_121879602

I'm not even certain a theory test is needed. They can drive at 14 on a farm. My kids can't even use a tin opener at that age and we expect a kid to have the experience and common sense of an adult to get out of danger

selectamatic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121880126#Comment_121880126

You need a theory test.

emaherx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121880126#Comment_121880126

14 on farm away from public roads.

Theory test needed to apply for any learners permit. I had to do theory test even though I'd a full license since before theory test existed just to add a trailer license for car / jeep.

I'm sure it's easy to check NDLS to confirm same, if you need reassurance. But yes total madness that a 16 yr old can drive unaccompanied on the main roads on in the biggest fastest machines available today, the tractor license is well overdue reform and the proposed new 2 tier tractor license is a good start.

The sudden change attempted last week was totally ridiculous and wouldn't have taken any 16 yr olds off the roads but would have cost a lot of jobs for no reason.

The11Duff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121867329#Comment_121867329

The Type of diesel has no bearing on safety

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121880126#Comment_121880126

That might say more about how kids are being reared nowadays than anything else.

I’ve known 14 year olds down through the years that were more than capable of handling a tractor or farm machinery safely. Equally I know 40+ year olds that shouldn’t be allowed near a push bike, never mind let into the cars they’re legally allowed drive!

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883068#Comment_121883068

I wouldn't be allowed drive a car on my own without a competency test yet a 16 year old can drive a tractor many times the size, weight and power on a public road with no driving test on their own. It's madness and anyone even thinking it's ok needs to think again.

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883133#Comment_121883133

Not all kids are created equally. Many 16 year olds on farms are more than capable of operating machinery in a competent manner. They don't have the wherewithal of safety and would be prone to risk taking. That's where good education and training from the parents comes in to play, with the threat of an arse kicking or worse, no more driving hanging over their every move. I myself was driving a 30hp tractor at 7 on my own. My job each day was cleaning out the sheds. I'd spent a lot of time prior to being on my own with my father watching what he did, and then with him beside me guiding me. Moved on from there to being out mowing silage on my own at 12 on the big tractor (it was 60hp but was our big tractor!). It's not as if you turn 14 and are let off on the farm, there's years of work done beforehand with practical experience to boot. Personally, if I needed someone to come drive for me I'd plump for the 14 year old child of a farmer with experience over a 40 year old with none.

You are 100% right in that it's madness that the licence system hasn't moved with the advances of machinery. It certainly needs to be looked at. The RSA change was a crude change which impacted much more than they had expected. Poorly thought out change.

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883184#Comment_121883184

By your argument why would I be doing a car driving test if my parents thought me how to drive in a car park. It's a different story on a public road.

Agreed the changes were unworkable but changes need to be made.

I heard some group are offering kids training off road to give them the skills to handle machinery properly

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883133#Comment_121883133

I don’t dispute you opinion on the rules around licensing and fully agree that it needs to be overhauled. With the speed and size of modern tractors there absolutely should be some form of driving test for the W license.

But that doesn’t alter the fact that there are plenty of 16, and even 14 year olds, on farms that are capable operators and would pass the test.

As @roosterman71 explained the majority of farmers kids are driving for years under supervision before they reach 16.

I’ve a son and at 8 years of age he was wrapping silage on his own and could reverse a jeep and trailer using just his mirrors. Stand outside a mart any day and you’ll see plenty of lads with 30 years of driving experience that can’t do that. By 10 years old he could bale, mow, he was even driving 12 ton track machines in a sandpit loading dump trailers. He could sit into any machine or new tractor and just understood how to operate them. At the same time I’d brothers in their 30’s and I wouldn’t ask them to move the 135 in the yard because I’d be afraid they’d drive it into something. It’s not all about age but about being able to operate a machine and understanding it.

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883272#Comment_121883272

I'm not doubting you and I see it locally but it's a different story being in a field and being on a road doing 100kmh and pulling a slurry tanker . You can't control the other guy and need to know how to deal with it safely

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883302#Comment_121883302

Yep, I agree with that and as I said I agree with you that there should be a test for the W license.

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883224#Comment_121883224

If you were driving the car from 6 or 7 years of age, you'd be well capable of driving it on the road. The W category isn't restricted in the same way and it bloody well should be. It is crazy that at 16, anybody can get it and be legally allowed drive any "tractor" with any size implement or load behind it, at speed. It's a total nonsense and there must be restrictions added. The easiest restriction would be a max speed, weight and width. Limit it to the smaller machines until such time you've passed some assessment.

I learnt how to drive a car at 11 driving around the local hurling field. My godfather thought me. By time I hit 17 I got the provisional (no test needed) and had the full licence 4 months later after passing the test first time. I was allowed go 120km/h on the motorway then despite having no experience of a motorway, or indeed much road driving cos I'd no insurance!

GoldFour4

You shouldn't be allowed any tractor on the road without having passed a test. There shouldn't be any restriction level or equivalent where you can drive it if it's below that level. There are plenty of 16 year olds (or whatever age) well capable of driving a tractor properly but there are plenty who are extremely reckless on narrow bendy roads when pulling silage trailers.

Honestly don't see the issue with the RSAs change albeit clearly they should engage with industry bodies in advance etc.

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883890#Comment_121883890

The change was a nonsense. It meant lads working driving tractors hauling instead of trucks were illegal. It meant for example that farmers spreading water on roads being built to keep dust down were illegal. It would mean a farmer drawing gravel for a lane, or blocks for a wall would be illegal. I could go out and carry 30 bales or 20/25 ton behind me and be fine, but put a pallet of blocks on for the return journey and it would be illegal. All done with no consultation and with the flick of a pen. It was stupid.

emaherx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883890#Comment_121883890

The issue is it didn't effect the 16 yr olds hauling silage trailers on a learners permit at all but may have cost many adult construction workers with full licenses their jobs due to a change in their license overnight with 0 warning or consultation. No one on here disagrees with a need to overhaul the license but that was not the way to do it.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883224#Comment_121883224

At 17 you can drive a car on the roads with the just a theory test and someone sitting beside you. You need 12 EDT lessons to do your test, you don't need any lessons to start driving. Unless the car has dual controls the accompanying driver can do feck all if the 17 year old makes a dangerous mistake.

All our driving regulations need to be reformed. For bikes you can't get on the road without passing your IBT, we should make it similar for cars.

blue5000

AFAIK every teenager in NZ learns to drive in school and has a full license leaving school. I think it should be done here too as part of TY.

On the diesel, UK brought it in about 2 years ago mainly for construction but it also includes some forestry machinery too. I think it’s only a matter of time before it happens here.

SodiumCooled

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121883224#Comment_121883224

But you can drive a car with just a theory test having been thought by your parents in a car park - no one has passed a test when they start driving on the road.