Primary schools Dublin 18 ish: advice much needed

cherry_throwaway

Hi all, I am a Spanish mum of a 3yo currently in creche in Dub 18/Leopardstown. I am not very acquainted with the education system and my Irish husband seems to have lived his entire life under a rock because he isn't much help if I'm honest. I am at a loss because I am not sure what to make of private vs public (also, private seems to be a very very wide range). We are not rich, but we are lucky that we are comfortable financially and only have one child and if private is better, we are happy to make that work. I went to a public school and I am not going to lie, I have some heavy biases against very posh schools, but a the same time, I do want do to the best I can for my daughter.

I guess this is a two fold question:

* when the statistics says there is little difference with public vs private: does that include both the 500 euros a year 'voluntary' fees and the 15k ones?

* in particular, in Dublin 18 area: what schools would you advice (or not)?

What I am looking for is non-denominational or segregated, with the best possible education and positive values. I am not sure what to expect from neither public nor private schools, but I would love if she was allowed to explore what she wants, get encouraged to learn things in a practical way rather than memorising and was encouraged to think of diverse points of view, treat others kindly and become a responsible adult. You know, the dream O:)

cherry_throwaway

To narrow things down: I was mostly looking at Educate Together at Leopardstown or Nord Anglia, but I didn't want to bias anyone in case I was missing something.

byhookorbycrook

Ireland has very, very few non-denominational schools. Educate Together and some Gaelscoils are multi-denominational. I'm not sure what you mean by "explore what she wants?" You will also need to think of secondary schools, which sounds a bit odd, as she's only three, but some primary schools feed into particular secondary schools.

As to Nord Anglia, I've no experience of it, but it doesn't follow the Irish curriculum, which may be a problem later on. It appears to caters to the children of international parents, which may mean children are drawn from a very wide area, which could impact on after school playdates, after-school activities etc. For me, I'd prefer to keep the fees and use them for the benefit of yourselves. I'm not sure where you have heard that primary schools seek €500 in contributions each year, that would be highly unusual.

cherry_throwaway

Thanks a lot. I guess I meant to encourage kids to take some initiative or follow their interests too. I might have gotten it wrong and it being secondary schools? I am definitely thinking about secondary schools anyway, it might be my nature XD I have thought of that, is the 15k a year worth it if I think I could save all of that to help her later on whatever?

threescompany

Hi,

I don’t have any knowledge n D18 schools so can’t comment on that.

Regarding schools public V private, I believe there is no difference at all between private and public schools.

I’m a primary teacher for 20+years. I have worked in two primary schools and have children in another school. None of these schools ( mine or my childrens) are private schools but my nieces went to private school and absolutely there is no difference in outcome. However my nieces have posher accents than mine!

There are fabulous teachers in all schools, regardless of whether they are private or public. ( of course, there are also teachers that aren’t so good, unmotivated and maybe going through difficult times) it’s like all places of work, there’s good & bad!

We all want the best for our children, to be the best version of themselves with good morals etc and so much of that comes from an intrinsic motivation , natural intelligence, personal disposition and their family environment - so public v private has little relevance!

The curriculum is very broad and there’s lots of opportunity for creativity, develop social skills (subject is SPHE) and formal learning.

all teachers have their strengths and weakness, no one can be perfect at everything. So by that rationale, teachers are fairly similar regardless of whether they are private / public.

Some of my colleagues are super at music / art, some excel at English. Primary school is a journey but you as the parent are the primary educator by instilling resilience & an a nice decent chilled out child. All else will fall into place!

I teach in a disadvantaged school, but some of the pupils are highly motivated and intelligent and despite their rough home life they are fabulous people and I know they’ll do great 😁

absolutely my priorities would be:

mixed school

non fee paying ( most schools have around €100 voluntary contribution which is fine)

close proximity

best of luck with your decision.

cherry_throwaway

Thanks so much for that, super helpful :)

suilegorma

Take a look at Gael Scoil Sliabh Rua in Ballyogan. You might not be considering a gael scoil first off but your daughter is probably already bilingual so a third language should flow naturally. It is a multi denom mixed school and is pretty fantastic, the staff are so dedicated and do load of extras that we did not expect, participating in science programs, trips to museums etc. Plenty of parents who were not educated in Ireland ie who took Irish as a subject too. And a tiny % of the parents are fluent or native Irish speakers, for help with homework etc we rely on online resources and share info with other parents etc. Very biased but we love it so happy to recommend it. If you call the school they will let you know next open evenings etc. Or if you have any questions I can specifically answer let me know.

Reati

Agree with above. My kids are in a Gaelscoil. Most of the best friends are not of Irish descent and speak a different language than English or irish at home. Not a bother on either the kids or parents with the Irish. They are like language sponges at that age (One kid has 4 languages!) and having irish can unlock opportunities and jobs they otherwise wouldn't have in future.

cherry_throwaway

Thanks a lot @suilegorma ! It sounded a bit scary on 2 fronts: I speak zero Irish (although my husband does have so vague recollection from school as he is Irish, but I expect to be the official school support parent) and I was afraid (and here is my question) that her not currently speaking Irish she might be behind in the other subjects if they are taught in Irish, do you think that would be the case? I can't get her started yet as she's still getting the hang of separating English and Spanish as it is 😅

A few other less important questions if you wouldn't mind: do you know what other after school activities or languages do they teach? Also, how is English taught? If books and homework is in Irish, how do you help them? I would love hearing more from you, because it might be an awesome idea, but as you might have noticed, I do have a few fears there 😬

cherry_throwaway

That's great to hear @Reati !

suilegorma

Irish is taught immersively. So they just speak Irish from day 1, using simple words and even sign language at the start. Neither of my kids had any before starting and were fluent v quickly with no input from us as parents (apart from showing our enthusiasm when they spoke the language). And your daughter will need to do Irish anyway so this is just more of it and more naturally taught. So if being able to help with homework is an issue it will be an issue with any school. The kids get really good at translating for parents and being able to turn your English/Spanish explanations into Irish. Re the other subjects, we just google when we need to help. Or ask other parents. There are so many resources. As I mentioned most parents are not fluent or never studied Irish at all and I rarely hear it being an issue. They learn all subjects through Irish apart from English but they learn the same concepts, ideas, team working regardless of language. They also do French as another language too, it is not immersive but again allowing the kids to access a third and for some a fourth language.

If your daughter is only 3 then she is still developing language skills so try to picture her at 5, being able to fully converse and switch between her two languages. Honestly it's already a great start! So to add another is incremental.

cherry_throwaway

Of course, I just meant that I would be lost for helping on math too if the books are in Irish 😅 Although I imagine google translate could just become my best friend 😅 (I am all in for learning a bit of Irish with her, but I have no hopes to reach the level I would need to read complex subjects). But yes, you are right, I am judging my kid on her current abilities rather where she'll be by then.

scarepanda

My kids are in a Gaelscoil, I'm Irish, but your probably better at the language than I am. In our school for the first coupe of years they do all the Irish work in school and home work is done through English. My eldest is in 1st class and she has some Irish homework this year, words, reading and writing. There's online resources that we use for some of the more tricky Irish words and the writing at the moment isn't too hard. They read the Irish book in school so it's more of a revision and my girl will know most of the words. If there's any issues we check online or leave a note for her teacher if she's particularly stuck. Id guess there's only 1 or 2 in her class where their parents can speak Irish, it's not the main language at home in any houses I would think and there's about 15% of her class that are not of Irish origin. So a majority of parents that are not fluent.

suilegorma

Sorry I never responded on the afterschool activities in GSR...loads, sport, coding, dance, chess, gymnastics etc etc. Plus they have an on site after school club run by a private Co. If you are in the catchment area there is also a bus that runs around Stepaside, super convenient.

And I 100% believe there is no need for parents to speak any Irish to be able to send your child to a gaelscoil. They become translators themselves and learn very quickly to switch languages, which I'm sure your daughter is already pretty adept at. I'm so glad we have the opportunity to allow our kids to access immersive language eduction, Irish might not be used outside of Ireland (well, it is in the EU now) but opening up the mind to languages can only be a good thing, regardless of which one it is. My daughter has said to me that she gets things much more in Irish....like the grammar and words fit her better or something! So I'm glad to access the cultural part of it too.

JDD

Hi Cherry Throwaway. I live in Dublin 18 and have my children in school locally here. Here's my personal take on your questions.

I went to national school (what public primary schools are mostly called here) and then went on to a private secondary school. I wanted the same for my children for the following reasons:

1/ I don't believe the quality of the teaching in private primary schools are any better than the teaching in national schools. My private secondary school had a private primary school (called a junior school) attached to it. When I started in secondary school (all those years ago) I didn't at all think that the girls that came from the junior school were ahead of us public school kids. If anything, they were a little bit behind in history and irish.

2/ Putting aside the quality of teaching, I don't think that primary school should be all about academics. Primary school, to me, is all about getting your foundations in certain subjects, playing sports and developing social skills. In fact, social skills might be further up that list. For me, it was important that my children would have friends living really close by, so that when they got to 7/8/9 they'd get a bit of independence and be able to call to their friends houses by themselves. My daughters have four or five friends each that live on our estate and are in their class. It's particularly beneficial in the summer, when they can just come and go as they please.

3/ National schools will have children of all social backgrounds, and generally have more children of different ethnic backgrounds. I don't want my children to grow up living in a bubble, thinking everyone can afford a house, or afford to go skiing every year. I want them to be able to socialise with everyone, no matter their background.

4/ Finally, you get a better product for your money at secondary school level. The government pays the basic salary of all secondary school teachers, whether they are in a public or fee paying school. That means your fees go to top up teacher's salaries, pay them to do extra curricular activities, and other things like buildings and facilities. There is no such subsidy for private primary schools. Your fees pay the entirety of the teacher's salaries, leaving less left over for other costs. That is why private primary fees tend to be a bit higher than the fees for secondary schools.

We have our children in Holy Trinity National School. It's mixed gender, though it is nominally catholic. As far as I can see, religion is only really taught in second class (Holy Communion year) and sixth class (Confirmation year). There's a lot of different religions that go to the school, and out of 23/24 kids in my children's class, eight or nine have excused themselves from religion. That only has really an effect in 2nd and 6th class. That religion element can differ from school to school though. My oldest previously attended another school in Booterstown and religion featured heavily during the school day. I'd recommend Holy Trinity. It's not perfect (their school to parent communication could be better) but my daughters are very much enjoying their time there.

GAAcailin

Dublin 18 is a large area; you should check which National Schools you are in the catchment for. E.g. if you are in parts of Cabinteely you may be in the catchment for Saint Brigid's school; if you are Foxrock you could qualify for Holly Park.

My kids are in a gaelscoil but it also happens to be our closest school. I think it makes a massive difference for the kids to be schooled locally, mine are older and can walk to school themselves. Also there are lots of kids on our road who are in the school too, its nice that they can meet up with their friends locally and see them at GAA, Soccer, Dance etc.

Just my opinion but for me the best school is often the closest school!