What do people actually want / expect from the "club" thing ?
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19-02-2024 11:23am#1
Just been browsing through the annual subs thread and it got me thinking about how there are so many different aspects to people's thinking on golf club memberships. Thought it might be worth a thread of its own ( or maybe not !)
The way I see it you've got on one hand the old, cash rich, great location, well established clubs with big hello money and waiting lists, and at the other end you've got the clubhouse closed 4 days of the week, change in the car park, members running the bar, keep the head above water operations, and pretty much every shade in between.
Personally I love being a member of a club, even if mine is closer to the second option above than the first, and trying to compete and lower my handicap, get on teams etc etc., but I also see peers of mine who have no interest in that at all and all they want is a regular 4 ball with themselves every Saturday from April to September. I know I'd get great value from my sub as you can always get out for a few holes on a summer evening without needing to book, while friends who can't do that start dividing their sub by the number of rounds and deciding if its worth it. Neither is right or wrong, its all down to circumstances obviously, but i think its getting harder for clubs to please everyone as life gets in the way for different generations.
Like I say, the annual subs thread just got me thinking about stuff like, assuming its affordable, when do things like crowded timesheets, level of service, quality of course, location, condition of course etc start to impact on joining or not joining, or even on moving ? Are flexi memberships where X amount is deducted from your sub each time you play, going to be more the norm ?
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Its an interesting discussion allright. Speaking from my own experience, I joined a member owned club in 2021 and got great value out of it. It has a pro, decent practice facility, bar and occasionally does food but they've struggled to find a caterer to run that side of it and the food has always been poor IMO. Bar staff and opening hours not great also but there was a relatively lively social scene at the weekends I believe though I never once even so much as had a pint in the bar, i'd go in for a coffee after a round fairly often but coming back in the evening was never a thing for me. Was able to play most weekends and at least one evening a week. 2022 was similar though it was harder to get out at the weekends, particularly in comps. We had our first child in August 2022 so my circumstances and free time changed dramatically, as a result i only played 8 counting rounds in 2023 mainly because it became impossible to get a time that suited me. As a result of that I've moved to a smaller club, part of a resort and managed by the resort, no pro, not much practice facility but clubhouse is much better and more modern. Course is not of the same calibre as the previous one but its enjoyable and relatively challenging. Main motivation for moving is timesheet availability, basically i need to be home by lunch time on Saturday to make it work with the family so 9am is the latest tee time I can go for. New club has way less members and so far the time sheet has been more or less empty on the times I was looking for. We'll see how it goes for me when it gets busy during the summer but so far i'm happy with my decision. For me the decision is can i get a game, I don't have any interest in getting involved with teams/committees but I'd like to get to know members too I just wouldn't be able to go for a few drinks post round or head over in the evenings.
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With me currently, I opt for a pay and play model and it suits me. All I want as this stage is my GUI members what that offers. The club I'm a member off has no club house, but has some decent facilities, range, putting green etc...its the perfect carpark to course golf, which suits me.
I'm busy, with a young family so if I got to play 10 counting rounds at my home club in the year, that would be excellent. I like to then try fit in another 5/6 away days with mates from home in a few open days.
I've no time, nor the interest in committees, team events etc. with where I'm at in life currently...maybe in 10 years, I might when my weekends become a bit less hectic look to join a more established club, with a good bar and social scene, and better all around facilities.
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Just saw this after posting in the annual sub topic.
For context; I'm 40 & off 6.7 index. Club: Castlemartyr
Location & enjoying the course is big for me. Just under 15mins from my home & I really like the course. There's 1 course slightly closer & they pride themselves on being a club club (it isn't a members owned course either) but I don't like the course.
Joined my club in 2019 with 2 friends & both have left this year due to sub increases & lack of enjoyment. There's a drainage issue that's being addressed & I'm hopeful it'll come good. Great spot in the summer.
My aim is to get out at least once a week & try get my handicap down as low as i can. Would love to play Bruen but I've not really played well the last 2 years so haven't put myself forward.
The social side of things is huge as well; love playing with different people & chatting away to who ever is around & just enjoying the break while playing. I play in the social scrambles & the mixed in the summer evenings but rarely go to the club house as usually have plans with my wife or friends outside of golf at the weekends
What I expect from the club: As a resort all I expect is the course to be in decent shape.
What I expect from the actual club (i.e. the members running the club/comps/teams/newsletters): I don't expect too much, but having the right people in the important roles is huge. We've a great comp sec/team & they do brilliant work. They probably dont get the thanks for it that they deserve but they give up alot of time to have the place running smoothly. Club captains/presidents have all been sound since I've joined & create a nice friendly atmosphere which is needed in a club
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Interesting topic.
Having not played for some years due to injury i joined Cahir Park in 2021..fairly close..nice course during the season and friendly people.
What i did notice was difficulty if you join on your own getting out as everyone had their own crew to play with.
For me if the club had a process for introducing new members to officers and committee..maybe a new members hour few times a month would be good.
Good communication thro emails social media etc vital too.
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Agree with @bobster453 -Very interesting topic
I'm nearly 40 and joined my very 1st club this year -Blarney -I have played numerous rounds of golf but they would all been with close friends at their local club
Was due to play my 1st round with 3 random people last weekend but was postponed due to the rain -I do find it hard to get out with people in the club as once the bookings open most people seem to go with people they usually play with and that is understandable .I get small bit nervous then about booking a slot as i feel like people don't want a randomer joining them (More my head than the club )
It would be nice to have some slots maybe every 1/2 months for new members to maybe play with some seasoned pros -Even if it is just to show them small things around the course -Maybe show them some course etiquette .Not to fully coach them but small things like where to stand at the tee box ,pace of play-Play of the course .
On the clubhouse -We do have a lovely clubhouse with new interior design,New restaurant ,Well stocked PRO shop but as i don't know many people in the club ,I tend to just finish my round and head home
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Similar to my experience. I joined first club last year and was playing in casual golf times alone a lot as was very nervous playing with strangers for the same reason. When the winter light came in that became less of an option and have had to get out earlier in competition in spare slots and have to say it was all in my head. Everyone has been very welcoming and I’ve been surprised by the amount of three balls I’ve played where everyone is a stranger. It definitely would have helped if there was some kind of induction to the club but have gotten over that now. I’ll pop up to bar for a tea and food when people are keen but more often than not people tend to finish and go.
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I found when I first joined my club as an outsider when I started to go into the bar after my round. I started to meet and become friendly with a lot of the members and am good mates with a lot of them now!
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Our club has four-ball draw competition every Wednesday in winter.
Any member can turn up and there is a draw for pairings. The regulars have a wide range of handicaps.
It's a great way for new members to get to know other people.
We have prize giving as soon as last group comes in so most players stay for a snack and a chat.
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I like a bit of everything - but the main thing I want is a location to play 6 to 9 holes - not a massive fan of 18 hole rounds (say 4.5 hours). But it is nice to enter say a medal etc. Ranges are ranges - but there is nothing like playing a few holes of golf - practically when you like.
A great club will offer a variety - a place to eat - drink - practice - meet new people - great competitions with low bandit numbers - ability to help out or volunteer.
Golf clubs had a massive rebirth and growth during and after covid - I think they have changed culturally over the last 30 years - they were considered formal - a bit male and stale . But as Irish society has changed - the good clubs have embraced that change. What I'm getting at there - if you were running a club based on an old sort of English club structure - will your kids really buy into that - or want to go there even for lunch. The best clubs change and see the change. Great clubs have a variety of people - and backgrounds and ideas. They are reflective of the best side of Irish society.
There are some members and their entire life is around the club - their social life - family life - even business life. I get that and fair play to them - but I want a bit of variety in my life . The idea of playing with the same 4 people - week in week out - I couldn't do that. But - they seem unbeivably happy - so whatever floats your 4 ball " are we playing for the 5er etc etc ha ha "
Whilst - the expression "car park golfer "- is a sort of disparaging remark about certain golfers . I think the best golf clubs have recognized that - the 9 to 5 - weekend golfer is a reducing member profile. People have different work arrangements - very different family arrangements these days.
The challenge for the next generation of golfers - is to realize that golf clubs are run by volunteerism - how will that be embraced going foreword.
When I started out on my golf journey - I would have always put course quality as number 1 consideration , but the more you are around a club - you see there is a big difference in a great golf course - and a great golf club. And as odd as the sounds - the better the course - very often , you would never want to be a member.
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What I want (and have):
- Local - no long drive
- well maintained
- not full of stuck up w*nkers
- Pro and Pro shop
- Bar and restaurant
- practice facilities - putting, range, shortgame
- Busy timesheet (but not too busy) means that you get to play with lots of different people and get to know them
- varied comps
- good interclub representation
- can jump out and play 4, 7, 9, 18 when it is not busy
Post edited by BraveDonut on6 -
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Good thread.
It's obviously changed over the years. I started when I was 12, so back then one I could walk to was obviously high on the list of priorities! And one that accommodated juniors - thankfully the local club was terrific in that regard. We had a committee who both advocated for us and were generous with their time to be there for competitions every Christmas, Easter and mid-term over the winter and every Friday in the summer. On top of that we had a bus arranged to local junior opens (about 10 per year) and weekly lessons. Juniors might not (hopefully not) pay much for membership, but they are members too and should be looked after.
Skipping forward to after I finished college - I was living in Dublin, on crap money and had a girlfriend from Offaly. So there was no point in joining a Dublin club - I had no car to get to one anyway and my weekends were split between Waterford, Dublin and Offaly. What I wanted at that point was to be able to play when I went home to Waterford for the weekend and with my girlfriends father in Tullamore, so having a handicap was handy for opens there. I kept an intermediate followed by a distance membership at home. It was still the course I used the most, although I was probably only playing there a half a dozen times per year.
Skipping forward to now, what I want from a golf club can be split into what I want right now and what I expect to want in the future. Right now, with the stage of life I'm at (two kids, the oldest being 2) I don't get to play much. I pretty much can't play week days, so I need a 7 day membership. The main problem with not being a member anywhere is it by and large rules out Sunday golf, so halves the number of days I can play in the year. And I try to double up on golf and seeing my friends, so will play a lot of away rounds. Really, I only expect to play about half a dozen rounds in the club. So someplace near and relatively cheap. I just can't justify big subs for someplace I'll only play half a dozen times in the year.
But on the other hand, I'm now settled where I am so can think about a lifetime club. For that, I want a club with a good junior program in case my children show an interest. Location is huge - I would love to be able to walk to it. Having a vibrant membership is important - it doesn't have to be members owned, but if it's privately owned the members would need to be the most important thing (so not a club that is more interested in green fees than members). The course and conditioning is important too.
So this year I joined a cheap and cheerful club that's a reasonable distance away. I moved clubs because I'm not good enough for the course I was a member on. But I am thinking now about where I'll end up long term. There are 2 clubs within walking distance of me. One is an incredible course, but that's probably the only box it ticks. They've no interest in juniors and I'd be concerned about what interest they have in their members to be honest. The other is also within walking distance from me and actually ticks pretty much all the boxes (although I've never played the course). There are millions of juniors walking in every day though and from talking to a member it sounds great. Other than the price which probably rules it out. If I'm to be a member there in time for when my kids my be interested in taking up the game, I'd need to pursue membership in the next couple of years. I'd need to be a pavilion member first, followed by a five day (€8.5k joining fee) and then a 7 day (€12k joining fee, I assume the five day joining fee comes off it). So since I can hardly play on the weekdays, between the joining fees, pavilion subs and 5 day subs I'd probably have to pay in the region of €15k before I start to get much use out of it. I don't know if I'll ever be able to justify an amount like that.
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This and it right across the road from me. Ideal for the Juniors during the summer holidays.
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