ESB Fault reporting charge.

Slightly Kwackers

Why do the ESB threaten a charge for incorrect fault reporting?

Their website is never a reliable source or data on outages, even planned ones and surely a smart meter is smart enough to figure out that Volts were available?

Even if the meter is the old variety, it seems simple to provide an indicator after the company fuse in order to give a visual indication of supply Volts. Even a neon bulb unreliable as they are would be frequently inspected by a meter reader

Now I have a none contact Volt stick, but if I didn't, I would not be confident in reporting something.

So just how do the ESB justify such a charge? If they made an attempt to keep their website accurate it wouldn't be so bad but frankly I leave it to someone else to report any of the very many outages we have here, I'm too busy trying to arrange a standby supply for the heating pumps and electronics anyway.

tomhammer..

A non contact tester or preferably 2 will tell you if there's a blown fuse or outage

Does any of the new meters tell you if powers out ?

MrMusician18

It's to stop cranks from calling in and to stop people calling ESB before checking their own fuse box

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783401#Comment_121783401

But you need to identify your meter to report a fault. What about a pensioner, unable to fathom out the mysteries of an unseen power source and not finding it easy to afford the current charge, let alone a possible call out fee?

For something that seems so simple to identify, the threat seems totally superfluous.

I have an area of the house with a separate supply for relatives/ visitors. It seemed obvious and simple to stick a small neon mains indicator fed through a dedicated breaker for that and only that.

Anyway isn't a smart meter capable of deciding whether Volts are available, and if so why don't the ESB use that to tell the householder through their website what is down, instead of relying on reports from "unqualified" individuals who would be disinclined to risk a charge anyway.

tomhammer..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783439#Comment_121783439

" It seemed obvious and simple to stick a small neon mains indicator fed through a dedicated breaker for that and only that."

There's no way of fitting indication without bypassing main isolation/ overcurrent

Simplest way is ESBN indication on the meter . Failing that non-contact if you know how to use them.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783400#Comment_121783400

One for the live and one for the neutral ? :-)

Good point actually, I always look for a known live before using a Volt stick. I have two, so it should provide a reasonable security if I don't have an independent 240 supply.

I have a smart meter, but it seems limited on what it displays. I was expecting to have a virtual War and Peace of data, but there is very little apart from power. In fact I have an Amp Clamp in the meter box as I still cannot quite equate the recorded usage with what I would expect.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783474#Comment_121783474

The indication is on a secondary DB and is fed through a breaker anyway. The idea was for people without knowledge of the house to be able to identify a problem within their section or outside it.

Why is there not an indication provided on the meter?

I assume smart meters have the monitoring capability anyway and cannot be isolated, so why not simply display the information, or interrogate the meter for power status.

My entire point is why a 160 euro charge for a mistake that the ESB can identify so easily anyway?

tomhammer..

Yes my point was that the indication on a sub-board doesn't prove anything and can't be fitted upstream of main devices either

It'll be fitted after isolator so you can't confirm if it's problem at sub-board or upstream or ESBN

Simplest is obviously neon indication on esbn meter if not already present ?

Does the display drop out on meters when when power is lost , not something i've ever checked

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783615#Comment_121783615

It’s rarely charged in reality. The purpose is to discourage people sending for ESB without making reasonable efforts to ascertain that the issue is on the supply side. If there was no disincentive, you would have some people calling up the whole time.

Smart meters are a relatively new addition and supersede the implementation of the charge you refer. On the technicalities of it being able to self report, I am not sure - It possibly transmits data on a schedule rather than constantly, and presumably would have limited ability to transmit status if it itself was without power. But no doubt in time it will prove valuable. Smart meters are only still being rolled out.

The cost of installing a suitably rated neon indicator at every connection in Ireland would be considerable, and its value questionable. Many faults affecting a supply could still cause the neon to illuminate and its presence might only serve to confuse the issue. On the same note, you’re non contact volt stick doesn’t tell the whole tale either. You could have a missing neutral for example and it won’t tell you this.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783681#Comment_121783681

I'm aware of the disadvantages, in fact once with a Fluke Voltage indicator, I ripped out several meters of trunking to find where the supply to my "dead" cable was coming from. I never thought that something using discrete LED's for indication could actually present a very much higher impedance across the measuring point than the multimeter I commonly used.

Neon's are terrible, I recollect decades back some crackpot at Uni decided to use a neon to indicate the time constant of an RC timing circuit. I had access to an electronics workshop at the time and was able to prove the fundamental flaws of using the bulb as an indicator. Having sad that, across the supply conductors of a company fuse or meter would be fairly reliable as a simple check by switching in a load would eliminate a false indication through leakage across an insulating medium.

I didn't think it would be charged too often even in the case of genuine errors, it was just that once again after arriving home and finding the house without power, it seems a pity the ESB does not at least pay more attention to the accuracy of status reports and other things like the cards they send through every few years, or tens of power outages.

tomhammer..

A fair point that the non contact wouldn't cover all cases of power loss

2-wire voltage tester might also be needed at esbn isolator

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783623#Comment_121783623

I never looked either!

I will check during the next cut, I doubt I will have long to wait.

Stupid of me really as I was in the box adjacent to the meter when the power was off the other day.

It isn't always easy to make a quick diagnosis. It's not unknown to have a fault leaving me with around eighty Volts on the incoming supply cables and it does catch me by surprise when it happens as some electronic items including LED lighting are happy to work on that supply. The house is very old and has had building work and upgrades done over the years, but some of the power layout is still a bit of a mystery, so if there is the slightest chance of arriving at the wrong conclusion, I never miss the opportunity:-(

Thanks for the pointer.

tomhammer..

I'd consider some type of voltage protection relay if that's happening or try and sort the issue with esbn

https://chintglobal.com/blog/voltage-protection-relay/

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121784222#Comment_121784222

Thanks, I have nothing too important here and they seem to pick up the problem within the hour anyway. The fridge and freezer are probably the only things at risk and neither would be missed if a motor burnt out.

It did surprise me when it first happened, I recall it wasn't unknown decades back in the UK, in fact I heard it was used as a strategy for power reduction until people started to use variacs. I cannot recall where I got this from but it would be in the 60's, after that power interruptions were virtually unknown.

Low power was a bit of a problem in the UK for me. I used to install projects with control systems that would do a full clean reset in the event of even brief supply losses of less than a second.

A lot of the stuff I dealt with was remote and suffered from brownouts though, difficult and unpredictable problems ensued sometimes.

Slightly Kwackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121783623#Comment_121783623

Well here in the outskirts of wildest Kerry, I didn't have to wait long for a power interruption, the planned one this time though.

The meter display disappears, there is no sign of life from it at all.

Now why don't they mention this means of checking on their website One wonders, it's a bit more positive than their do you feel lucky enough to risk 160 euro on your fault diagnosis.

As a clapped out geriatric, there might be a time when my income drops well below the expenditure of day to day living. Sitting freezing under the duvet until the pension derived savings amount to 160 euro is a worry off the mind anyway :-)

tomhammer..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121791815#Comment_121791815

They won't give guidance on that