Orthodontist codology

PaulMason

Went to see if i need braces on bottom teeth, as 2 or 3 are starting to overcrowd a bit, top arch is fine. So i first off ask about price, she says it depends on the complexity of what needs to be done but it can be anywhere between 2500 and 5500(for those Invisalign ones). I thought not bad, my job is not complex, actually its really simple in comparison to the before and after pictures i see on there website(remain nameless for now). Plus i only need one arch done, I'm quid's in here, or so i thought.

WRONG !!!!!

Quote comes back, 3,900euro, for one arch to be done. So obviously i ring in and make sure they sent the quote to the correct person. They say yes, so i question the price and the "it depends on the complexity of the job" routine. Apparently complexity means NOTHING. They said, that's just the cost and they have no control over it ... i said what about your advertising ??? it led me to believe that if i go in with a simple job, its gonna be cheaper, right ?

WRONG !!!!

Has anyone ever been led down the garden path like this for Ortho treatment ? and yes, its a reputable high-street practice. How can they get away with this blatant false advertising ? and iv checked other practises, they ALL advertise about the "complexity dictating the price".

YellowLead

The complexity does dictate the price. But I encourage you to shop around. I was given a quote for close to 4k and two years of treatment (10 years ago) and then another for 2900 and one year of treatment which I went for and it worked out perfectly, a real genuine ortho fully invested in the results.

So go and see a few before you write them all off.

Dav010

Who told you that your treatment is simple?

Its an unfortunate assumption often make that if only a few teeth are out of line, they are the only teeth that need to be aligned. To align those teeth, all the other teeth in the arch also have to be moved to create space. If the teeth are all touching each other, the arc of the dentition has to be widened to create the extra space, which of course takes longer in an adult than it does in a teenager whose jaws are not fully grown and jaw bone is more amenable to teeth movement.

Perhaps you should discuss your treatment with the person who told you it would be simple, they may not know what they are talking about.

kirving

As part of much larger treatment I'm currently undergoing, the orthodontist applied lower braces. One of my lower central incisors was at an angle, along with some crowding. Not too bad I thought.

The below photo is a real photo from June 2021 when I got the lowers on. (I applied a filter so you don't have to see the gory details).

I still have the lower braces on, and I damn sure have got my moneys worth from my orthodontist at this stage.

billyhead

Op. You may need an expander aswell and then a retainer after braces. Have you asked the orthodontist what the cost covers?

PaulMason

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764992#Comment_121764992

The orthodontist told me it was "very minor crowding" and would be "straightforward". Therefore i assumed meant simple, on the "simple to hard toothometer" ....

PaulMason

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121765106#Comment_121765106

Wrong thread lad

PaulMason

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764965#Comment_121764965

I spoke to 4 in total, all of which maintained the complexity determines the price, and all there price lists were in the same ballpark (anything from 2.5k to 5.5k, depending on complexity). I assumed this all means the same thing, they all be working off the same hymn sheet. The only 2.5k job they said is available is the 6 month smile thingy, which is where im going next to see if that will do the job. And if it does, why did the Orthodontist i went to, not suggest this would work instead of insisting i need braces for 2 years at cost of 4k ?

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121792653#Comment_121792653

Because I'm not telling you what you want to hear? I posted the picture of something which looks minor enough, akin to a "simple job" as you put it yourself, but solving the root cause of the crowding is a much bigger issue.

"Very minor overcrowding" and "straightforward" mean different things to different people. If you were to build a brick wall starting from left at the same time and found the middle brick wouldn't fit, the problem is very minor, and the fix is straightforward, but it's still a lot of work to rebuild the wall.

If four professional orthodontists who have all seen you, are all singing off the same hymn sheet, perhaps they have very good reason for it?

PaulMason

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121793539#Comment_121793539

Well lets put it this way, iv yet to see a before and after picture on any of there websites where its shows teeth anything remotely close to mine. The pictures are generally of people whose teeth are all over the shop, therefore i assumed the 4k upwards "complexity cost" would be for them, not me, and for both arch's, not one. The picture you shared of your teeth, mine are less crowded than that.

Its abundantly clear there is massive false advertising going on here. If mine cost 4k for one arch yet there are pictures showing people whose teeth are in a complete mess costing the same, im baffled ?

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121796448#Comment_121796448

It would be wrong to think all patient photographs are published, and of course orthodontists will showcase their skills by advertising the cases with the best before and after pictures.

I can see how you would have a gripe if treatment was started and then you were told it was going to be more expensive than you were quoted. However, I’m struggling to see why you are complaining that you were duped when given a quotation before treatment, so far all you have is a quotation, nothing more, and you don’t like it. It is entirely reasonable to have a guide price on a website, and then give a definitive price when the Orthodontist actually examines your teeth and forms a treatment plan.

If you don’t want to pay, there is no obligation to do so. Your allegation of false advertising is based on your unqualified opinion of how simple/complex your treatment is, nothing more.

PaulMason

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121796542#Comment_121796542

Well, lets clarify once again and leave it at that shall we. When an orthodontist tells you its mild, one would assume that equates to the layman's term "easy". Same way i would assume "moderate" means a little more complex and "Severe" means incredibly complex. So based on that i made the, bless my little soul assumption that "Mild" would be on the lower scale of there price range. So, if there's a word that describes less than "mild" in dentistry terms, please do let us know.

your welcome

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121796448#Comment_121796448

"All over the shop" can actually be a much easier fix than one tooth which is crowded, because there may actually be more space for the teeth to be moved and pulled together, or there may be other complications.

My teeth were only mildly crowded according to the HSE 20 years, minor enough that nothing was offered to me.

But to correctly fix the problem, I've now had SARPE surgery to widen my upper jaw, upper and lower braces, wisdom teeth out to make space for double jaw surgery last week, which has taken nearly 5 years, and to be honest, STILL has a way to go, and I'll likely never get to perfection.

Unless you understand the complexities of what need to be done, you'd be best just to forget the comforting words about it being straightforward. It is to them, but it's still just a lot of work.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885034#Comment_121885034

You are focusing on layman terms to dental treatment, and deciding you know better than the expert. There is a knowledge imbalance here, each othodontist may explain treatment by putting it in terms which a layman might understand. As another poster has ably put it to you, a mild malocclusion may take just as long, and require just as much treatment as a major malocclusion. I’ll give a an example, what may look like just a couple of teeth out of alignment, a mild cosmetic issue, may involve the movement of all teeth to align those in the wrong positions. On the other hand, you could have anterior teeth severely out of alignment, but the gaps between the teeth may make aligning them a much easier case. The severe malocclusion may be easier to treat than the mild malocclusion.

The important point to highlight is that you have been given a quote before treatment commenced, if you aren’t happy, so be it, move on to another orthodontist, he/she may use different adjectives to explain the treatment which you are happier with. Mild, severe, minor etc are not definitive dental terms used to describe dental treatment, if I was discussing a case with another dentist, I would use different terms, they are used to try and make it easier for nonprofessionals to understand.

I can think words I sometimes use which would be less than mild, “minor” and “hardly noticeable”. There are probably many other different words dentists/orthodontists use to make treatments more understandable.

Hopefully that provides some clarity.

PaulMason

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885231#Comment_121885231

Looks like the HSE pawned you off to the private sector, nothing new there. But then again, that's the HSE, notorious for avoiding work, or even if they do it, they do it wrong.

PaulMason

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885450#Comment_121885450

Yawl are missing the point here ... let me simplify then ... has ANYBODY ever got ortho work done for the minimum price listed on the treatment list for braces ? and be honest, people can smell bs a mile away

geotrig

maybe you are asking the wrong question , you just assumed you fit the 2.5k price .maybe try and find out what work fits that price ? .I've had 3 in my family get ortho work done and ea cost way more than your price with varying appliances and treatment done along the way. The last while it seemed less complex to the lay person ,1 tooth miss-aligned ,needed huge amount of other corrections and was more complex than the youngest that looked more complex to deal with.