Rebuild cost

randombar

Hi Folks,

Looking for advice here. I've a large claim in at the moment for repairs to my house.

There is a long concrete laneway up to my house (and my brothers next door) that I don't own but have way leave over.

The insurance companies loss assessor is claiming that 50% of the rebuild cost of that laneway should be part of the overall rebuild cost of my property.

To me this is madness, how do I go about proving this?

Thanks,

Gary

Eggs For Dinner

The definition of Buildings includes driveways and paths and, as such, should be considered in your rebuild cost. To avoid a deduction, you'll need to show that the laneway is not within the boundaries of your property and solely within your brother's

randombar

So if I don’t own the laneway (farmer up the road does) not on my land at all then it shouldn’t be part of the buildings?

their loss assessor is saying I’ve an “insurable interest”

Eggs For Dinner

If you don't own the laneway and it's not within the boundaries of the dwelling, it should not be considered for the purpose of the house insurance.

Is there a gate at the top of the lane which defines your boundary, or is at the bottom of the lane where both you and your brother come in off the road?

Essentially, the test will be down to establishing the boundaries of the dwelling. Even if you are the beneficial part owner of the laneway, if you have separation of the 2 areas, you can argue the lane should not be subject to inclusion in the sum insured. If you succeed with this argument, you are agreeing that there is no cover for the lane and you need to make arrangements to cover your liability in case of accident.

You may have insurable interest, but it has nothing to do with this policy, the same way a farm dwelling and farm lands are separate for the purpose of insurance, if the dwelling has it's own defined boundary

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121759978#Comment_121759978

That is the sticky part - a rebuild is supposed to put you back in the position you were in before the total wipe out happened and that includes being able to access your property. Is the access path insured by the farmer by any chance?

randombar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121760744#Comment_121760744

It's part owned by the farmer, part by the council and part by my mother. I presume he has some kind of farm insurance but no idea and he's awkward enough at the best of times.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121760109#Comment_121760109

It changes from Concrete to tarmac at my entrance by two lamp posts so is fairly well defined.

I'm just wondering how we proceed with this, is there a line in some insurance book that says "laneways dont count if they're not owned by the insured" or something.

Eggs For Dinner

Your policy will likely say driveways and paths within the boundaries of your dwelling. If there is no clear boundary (going from concrete to tarmac wouldn't be sufficient). The insurer may well be right. Tests which may be useful include:

Was the lane in place before your house was built?

Who installed the laneway and who is responsible for maintaining it?

What do your site plans show?

randombar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121761766#Comment_121761766

Was the lane in place before your house was built?

Yes

Who installed the laneway and who is responsible for maintaining it?

Parents installed, they are responsible I guess

What do your site plans show?

My site plugging into existing laneway

Eggs For Dinner

I think your answers above are your best argument to put to your insurer.Access to your property should not come in to consideration if it is outside the boundary of your dwelling

Even ownership of adjoining lands would not be a factor if you can establish the boundary of the dwelling by way of fencing, walls, hedges or gates

Eggs For Dinner

Just to add to the overall situation. As you advise this is a large claim and there is resistance from the assessor appointed by your insurer, you might consider appointing your own assessor to negotiate on your behalf. They do charge you a few , but it can be financially worth it. Set someone technically astute to counteract the argument being put forward

Deeec

You can't insure something you don't own. It sounds like you only have a ' right of way' to use this lane.

How was the lane damaged and what damage are you trying to claim for regarding the lane

coylemj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121763862#Comment_121763862

I don't think the lane was damaged in any way. The assesor is being asked to give a full rebuild number, so that the insurance can apply the averaging clause. For example, if the damage is assesed at 100K and the OP has 200K cover then, if the total rebuild cost estimated by the assesor is 250K, the insurance will only pay 80% of the 100K claim.

The OP is rightly concerned that the total rebuild cost will be inflated (and result in a reduced payout) if 50% of the cost of reinstating the lane is included in the estimate for a rebuild in the event of a total loss.

randombar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121764042#Comment_121764042

Exactly this. At the moment they are claiming 50% averaging. rebuild cost I had was 350, they are claiming it should be 700.

What really galls me is the fact that I've had to renew my insurance and they "can't tell me the rebuild cost" but have no problem ramming down my throat when it comes to a claim.

randombar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121763833#Comment_121763833

I've done this all right and he is making the arguments on my behalf but it's all just so vague.

"I think the laneway should be included"

"I don't think so"

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121765847#Comment_121765847

The problem is that you have no clear way of demonstrating that after a rebuild (which is very theoretical in any case) that you will be able to access the property because someone else is required to restore the access lane.

Given that it is all in the family, would there be any chance of coming to some kind of formal agreement that say your parents would undertake to "restore" the lane in the event of a rebuild? I assume they have it included in their farm insurance.

randombar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121766284#Comment_121766284

Ya I might get a signed letter off my mother to say as much. That with photos of entrance + sitemaps detailing right of way should push this over the line.

Need to find a few more of these though. They really are evil though, top dollar prices for the overall rebuild costs but then the cheapest rates under the sun for the individual items need to be repaired.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121766284#Comment_121766284

Isn't that the case for every house in the country..someone else is required to restore the lane, the road, the path, the motorway.

The site boundaries would be the obvious delineation of responsibility related to insurance.

I mean where do you stop. Sounds like a rake of codology. How do the insurers know offaly county council will fix up a road in good time...

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121766706#Comment_121766706

From all the OP as said it seems to be a private access road leading to properties on the farm. And although the OP has no ownership rights in the road he has an insurable interest as he can’t access the property in any other way. I would not think this is very common.

In a way I’m surprised his solicitor or the bank, assuming there is a mortgage, did not flag it up at the time, as not having a guaranteed way to access the property would impact the valuation.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121767966#Comment_121767966

Doesn't sound like the guarantee of right of way is the problem. It's rebuild cost of a road they don't own... hence my post.

coylemj

In a way I’m surprised his solicitor or the bank, assuming there is a mortgage, did not flag it up at the time, as not having a guaranteed way to access the property would impact the valuation.

OP said in the first post that he has a 'wayleave' over the laneway. Which suggests to me that there is a legal agreement in place which gives him the right of access. It was probably included in the contract of sale when he bought the site.

You'd have to hope that any solicitor would ensure that his access rights are watertight and he can't be messed around in the event of a silly dispute with the farmer over something like hedges.

Eggs For Dinner

Access is not the issue. The household policy is only concerned with property within the boundary of the dwelling. The insurers consider the laneway to be within the boundary of his dwelling, the OP needs to establish it belongs to the land folios of other parties and his "boundary' is defined by the building lampposts mentioned previously

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121768008#Comment_121768008

Yes but a right of way is not the same as a guaranteed way to access the property, unless the owner is obliged to restore the access way. The argument for including in the rebuild is that the OP would need to contribute to it's restoration. The OP needs to be able to show he has a cast iron way of accessing the property involving no expense on his side to kill of this argument.

Of course having successfully argued for excluding the laneway, he might find the assessor suggesting that the property is over insured....

randombar

I have signed agreements for "way leave" over the laneway that were approved by solicitor so all good there.

The laneway in question is used by my brother next door, the farmer to get access to a field and other potential sites (belonging to my parents).

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121770157#Comment_121770157

Which is precisely my point. You've got access permission but you don't own the land, similar how someone wouldn't own an L road outside their house but have access to it via their own gate.

Why would rebuild cost of L road come into play let alone a lane you don't own. But have permission on.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121770157#Comment_121770157

The only way you'll close down the assessors argument is to be able to point to someone else and say they are responsible for restoring that laneway and I have the legal where with all to make them do it.