Fuse Board downstairs toilet.

...Ghost...

Can someone clear this up for me? Are there regs saying I can’t have the fuseboard in the same room as a sink/wash basin?

My fuseboard is located under the stairs. Also we have a toilet and small sink under the stairs. The fuse board has a wooden housing around it, so it’s basically inside a cabinet in the upper corner of the downstairs toilet.

Last year I cancelled a planned solar install when an electrician said I can’t have solar installed if the fuseboard is in the same room as a sink. I thought this was only true if there was a bath, or shower in the room.

I’ve been contacted by a solar company to follow up on a quote. I explained what I had been told and they said they would check it out. They came back to say that Safe Electric said there is no problem with a sink….that only a bath or shower was an issue.

I would love some clarification here. I can only find details on UK regs, which also state a shower or bath being against the regs, but a sink in a downstairs toilet being ok.

2011

Distribution boards in new builds are frequently installed in utility rooms, these generally have sinks.

I am not aware of an rule stating that it is not permitted to install a distribution board in a room containing a toilet or sink. Can you ask you electrician to point out this rule? I doubt this rule it exists, but am open to correction.

I would agree that a downstairs toilet is far from an ideal location! Personally if it were my house I would move it to somewhere more suitable.

It would make sense to move the board before the solar install.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733649#Comment_121733649

Thanks for your reply. The electrician who said this works for one of the solar companies and this was last summer. I queried it over the phone with him at the time the installer was doing a follow-up site visit. Everything was in place and deposit was ready to be paid that day. I didn't proceed with the install based on what he said.

I had intended on at least upgrading the old fuseboard, as it's been there probably 30 years. I am considering moving it closer to the meter, which is on the same wall in the hallway about 5m away. Would a Wiska Wago Fuseboard Relocation Kit be the recommended method for doing this? It's not a DIY job, but I would like to know what the options are.

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733993#Comment_121733993

I wouldn’t reposition a 30yrs old distribution board by extending the cables .it’s probably time for a rewire

the issues you have with the solar company are probably the fact that’s it’s not permitted to have a distribution board under the stairs due to fire risk.(530.5.4)

it also shouldn’t have a timber cabinet around it no matter where it’s located ( also a fire risk)

a distribution board is not permitted in bathroom,washroom,w.c (530.5.4)

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121733649#Comment_121733649

The distribution board in a utility room would generally be far enough away from the sink.

530.5.4 states it not permitted in w.c

Hoagy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735582#Comment_121735582

That's from ET101, it was deleted from IS 10101.

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735965#Comment_121735965

Cheers Hoagy,You’re quite right,it was from ET101 and has been deleted

the I.S10101 states it cannot be installed under a timber stairs

530.6.2.4

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121736033#Comment_121736033

The board has always been under the stairs in all the houses around here. Late 70s build. I've been here since the mid 80s. There was no mention from any electrician, or solar company of there being an issue with the board under the stairs. Only 1 electrician mentioned the sink as an issue and my FIL is a builder and said he had heard about it before being an issue but couldn't be sure of the regs.

There's no way i'm getting the house re-wired. Not for the sake of getting solar anyway. I might be moving house in a couple of years and a rewire won't add any value to it like solar would. Moving the board is the most I am in a position to get done and if I can get this done by the method above, I would be willing to go that route. A chap I had at the house today doing a solar survey says there is no issue with the board location and they do alot of installs in houses with the board being in an under stairs toilet.

I'll have an electrician take a look anyway and go from there. Thanks

meercat

The rules aren’t retrospective so you don’t have to move the board. I only suggested a rewire because it’s pointless moving the distribution board on a 40yr old installation. Moving the distribution board would require testing and certification and it’s unlikely (but not impossible)that it’d pass these. Your mains and earthing would also have to be upgraded as part of this too

if your solar installer needs to add additional circuits and there’s no room on your existing board then he’s not permitted by regulations to add a sub board under the stairs.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121736318#Comment_121736318

Good point there. I wasn't aware testing and certification would be needed for a board move. There is room on the old board for a couple of new circuits, but I would like to have it upgraded from the near 30 year old plastic rats nest it currently is. Would that also require the same testing and certification? I presume yes, but not to the same extent, as there would be no change to the wiring. I'm trying to improve the existing setup without ripping the house apart.

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121736033#Comment_121736033

Rules can not be applied retroactively.

Edit: I see that this has already been addressed.

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121737167#Comment_121737167

If your distribution board is just being replaced and not repositioned it still has to be tested and certified. It’s also a requirement that the mains cables and earthing (rod,supplementary bonding)are upgraded at the same time. You may find it difficult to get a rec to do this as it’s likely (but not impossible) as there are existing issues on a 40 yr old installation and may not pass the testing and verification process

just to note for you that it is permitted to replace an existing distribution board that's currently fitted under the stairs

a notice of potential hazard should also be issued by any rec that does work on your distribution board

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121737673#Comment_121737673

OP, Just to highlight this point from meercat, I had the same issue when fitting a EV charge point in a previous house. Estimate for compliance with new regs was 15-20K, so I passed.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121737673#Comment_121737673

That’s mad Ted! Owner wants to make something safer. Regs say fcuk you, you need to spend thousands to do it all. Typical Irish beurocratic BS.

I had the bonding done last year with earth rod installed. Like anything else, I suspect not every RECI will approach the job with a rod up their butt. A common sense approach I’m sure can be found somewhere in the middle.

When you say mains cables, I presume you are talking about the tails? I plan to have those upgraded too, along with a fuse upgrade from 60/80A to 100A.

Sleeper12

I would suggest that rewiring & bringing everything up to date may give you a bigger return compared to the solar panels. Especially if you don't plan to live in the house for too much longer. Pv have close to 10 years payback at the moment, with electricity prices falling.

For me modern wiring up to code would be more important when buying a house compared to solar.

meercat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121738145#Comment_121738145

Yes when I say mains cables I’m talking about the tails. These cannot be upgraded without testing the whole installation and issuing a certificate 1 to esbn to connect into their meter. If you are upgrading to an enhanced supply then these tails will be 25mm and the earth rod cable will have to be 16mm.

im not sure what you mean by common sense approach,the regulations are there to be adhered to

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121738567#Comment_121738567

Doing solar now will help reduce my energy bills. Last year my house consumed 15,000kWh. Whatever size array I get installed, be it 3 or 6kWp, my house will consume every drop.

Adding some batteries will also let me avail of cheaper night rate which I can further supplement the day use with and hopefully Eliminate the ~35% or 5,000kWh the house consumes during the day rate over the year, or 14kWh per day. At 40c day rate, that’s over €2,000 per year.

I can get a 9 panel, 4kWp system installed with a 10kWh battery for around €8,000 which would see me using all the solar during the day and being backed up by cheap night rate electricity via batteries. I can self install another north string of 12 panels for about €2,000 to generate an additional 3kWp which would see me exporting on the brighter days, further reducing my bill. I’m in the process of finalising costs.

Rewiring won’t reduce my costs or see any pay back. I would suggest that most people buying a house don’t even think about the wiring and it wouldn’t add any value. I know I gave it zero consideration when buying. The lights and sockets were working and that’s what mattered to me. It would be nice to have fresh wiring, but everything is working just fine and I can’t justify the cost where I won’t see any return or benefit.

Solar while being an upfront cost will reduce and optimise my grid consumption, reducing my energy bill and after maybe 6 years will have paid for itself and continue giving me free energy. It will add value to the property as soon as it’s installed.

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121738856#Comment_121738856

I see where you are coming from. I'd prefer safer electrical system though. That's just my opinion

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121738804#Comment_121738804

As the rod and earthing was done only months ago with the intention of upgrading the tails, I’m sure that’s all good.

I will have to wait for the electrician to advise on the board and tails.