Peaked before 40? Career advice?

Board.surf

I'm feeling lost and looking to you friendly strangers for advice. I know it sounds silly when I put this in writing and the old Irish thing of "count your blessings" bla bla bla, but people have to have something to aspire to.

So I'm not even 40. I have a decent corporate job in the public sector. But I find myself unable to go any further up the ladder and it doesn't seem like I ever will be able to. Most above me are accountants, most around me are accountants and some below me are accountants. I, however, am not qualified as an accountant. I have worked in accounting and other areas and am very capable. I have a busy life with kids and my degree (which I graduated with at the start of the big bust) is in law and business from a Mediocre college. I've done fairly ok regardless and am constantly asked for advice by those above me in the structure. I've worked in management accounting for about 8 years, and also a few years ofproject management experience (certified), financial compliance and governance experience, and I'm very handy with data, communications campaigns etc etc.

I'm not wealthy and I can't afford to slack off and make a big change over the space of many years. 

Attempted solutions and options:

1. Ive looked at becoming a certified accountant and the exams would likely take me 4 to 6 years as I'd have no exemptions. I did a few of the exams before handy enough but then life and kids got in the way, plus my old boss messed me about with no support. I'm considering trying again and self studying at nights and weekends.

2. I'm trying to look outside of my employer but I think I have the same issue. I've interviewed for loads of other jobs in the public sector at a step up and am constantly ranked 2nd or 3rd on panels. It's soul destroying and I won't even say how many times it has happened because you won't believe me. The more senior staff are more than happy for me to do the work but not get the pay, recognition or promotion. Many times I've been outright ridiculed with "you're not even qualified". This is even when many of the jobs are absolutely not accounting specific in any way.

3. I have other skills and have experience in these areas but maybe not enough to pick up a similar paying job to pay the bills. I'd consider doing a master's in something else possibly and take a side step into another industry, but what industry will have me without taking too much of a pay cut? 

4. I can sit in this job for the next 30 years and whittle away, going slowly insane, helping those in more responsible roles to do their jobs.

I suppose I'm used to movement and progression so to be stuck for a fair few years now is fairly awful. Any career or education advice?

I see sheep

I'd probably go with number 4 but just stop caring about the job, assuming you're on decent money etc.

Sleepy

As you're already working on Management Accounting, have you looked into CIMA qualifications rather than chartered? Former colleagues of mine did them in closer to 2/3 years than 5/6.

Kurooi

+1 on CIMA, not a bad route, honestly it gets as much weight behind it as ACA/ACCA and if you're a more modern hands on management type you'd find it more relatable anyhow. Those ACA/ACCA still focus way too much of big four audit experience.

I've "peaked" similarly before and found other things to occupy myself with help. Hobbies, home, family, friends, health. Other aspects of life. You made it to a respectable job, calm, you're not a failure, you won't be a failure if you accept your job either. Enjoy life and your job too. It's not settling or giving up or silent quitting or any of that bullshit. You can actually just be happy with what you have, where you are, and take pride in your job . Having little to look forward to outside of the job often makes me feel like my career is a problem, where it's the exact opposite... Consider whether this could be the case.

Alternatively on the career route, well you will likely need to be an accountant if you're working finance heavy jobs. Reg reporting, finanancial control. Step to more management accounting side of things or something closer to HR, or if you're handy with data - analysis, transformation, project work - I've never seen those groups discriminate against non accountants. If you're not having luck there maybe it's in your head? Don't worry about pay negotiation comments they always try to find ways to manage expectations down.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121705920#Comment_121705920

The OP said he has considered "certified accountant", presumably ACCA. I don't see CMA being any easier....

Jim2007

The problem OP is that if you are working in an accounting world, having the certification is just a given, everyone one has it or are working towards it. Having it wont ensure you rise to the top, but not having it definitely will put a stop to your upwards mobility.

If you want to continue in this area and want to advance, I expect you are going to have to get the finger out and get the qualification... The bit I don't get is the willingness to put the effort and expense into getting a masters in something else, if you enjoy and want continue in your current career? Why not put the effort into getting the accounting qualification?

billyhead

Cima is the way to go. There are a lack of qualified CIMA professionals in the market however there are plenty of qualified ACCA accountants.

The J Stands for Jay

CIMA is all online, even the exams.

Also, why is option 4 working till you're 70? Plan for early retirement

Board.surf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121707404#Comment_121707404

Thanks Jim,

A master's is one to two years. Accounting exams last much, much longer. If I change to another discipline.

A master's can bring me straight up to a higher paid job. Accounting exams may result in some viewing me as newly qualified which ironically may penalise me in a way when it comes to moving up.

Board.surf

I can't retire until 67. I am not yet 40. With my lowly pension I definitely won't be able to retire early and I'm pretty sure you need a reason to as well.

Irish_wolf

Not a finance guy so can't help you on the specifics but my advice for a career goal would be to weigh up each of the options you have and if you're torn between two just pick one and go for it. Having too much choice can be paralysing. You say it could take 6 years to get your qualifications but if you don't start working towards it those 6 years will pass by anyway.

A mate of mine was working in cafe/retail jobs for years and hated it, long tiring hours not earning enough to support himself let alone invest in his future. One day when he was 28 he just walked out and got himself on a FÁS apprenticeship. Some people thought he was mad to take apprentice wages for 4-5 years and be the "old man" on the course but those 4-5 years passed in no time and while they were certainly tight years for him at the start he's now working a job he loves and earning good money doing it.

Time is less of a concern for you because you already have it made in the eyes of many. Look on LinkedIn or jobs sites for the positions you would love to have and read the requirements and qualification expectations. Pick a path that will get you those requirements and follow it as far as you can.

Board.surf

@Irish_wolf Thank you. Sounds like good advice that is probably something I would tell someone else but have forgotten myself.

Sleepy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121707349#Comment_121707349

CIMA is a shorter accreditation path than ACCA and from the detail the OP has provided, more relevant to the type of work they're doing. The exams aren't easy but it certainly shouldn't take 4 to 6 years to get them.

Deeec

The lack of an accountancy qualification is what is blocking you from moving on. So you need to look at how to achieve that if you want to move up the ladder. Now this may not be an easy given you probably still have a young growing family so you do need to weigh up the affect of this on your personal time. If you are paid well and happy in your role the best option may be just to stay as you are - the grass isnt always greener and a job higher up the ladder may just mean more stress rathar than increased job satisfaction.

Now this isnt meant to be an insult so please dont take offence - its meant as helpful advice. Just because you do accountancy now and are capable of doing your tasks well doesnt at all mean you are excellent at accounting - it just means you are good at the tasks allocated to you and presumably you were trained to do. I myself am an accountant in practice and I see all the time bookkeepers who think they are doing an excellent job when they are not - they are doing the basics but dont understand why they are doing it. Very often I have to take time to correct their mistakes but they dont realise the problems caused - they are basically data entry not accountancy and there is huge difference in this.

I think you need to sit down and think about what your current role is - is it accountancy, is it project management, is it compliance or analysing data.

Cyrus

can you move more into the data side of things and maybe do a one year masters in a related field instead, as others have said if you are in an accountancy area not having the qualification will hinder certain paths, but if you move more towards data you can get away from that.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121709289#Comment_121709289

Everyone is interested in their own career, have financial commitments and dreams for their families. So when required to recruit someone or promote someone they consciously or otherwise will reflect on how the decision will impact them. So if you recruit someone to a junior position or promote someone to their first level management position and it goes pear shape it is going to reflect on them, not you. And the consequences of getting it wrong for the company is not very high and to be expected on occasion at that level and it won't really have any impact on your career. However if you appoint someone to a senior position and it does not work out, your colleagues and possibly board will want to know what the hell you were thinking of to appoint someone who was not qualified or did not have the experience needed to take on that role. The consequences for the company are greater and it will be seen as poor judgement on your part this impacting your progression. And from your comment "you're not even qualified", I suspect that is playing a big part in your career right now - you have the experience, but not the qualification and at higher levels people are not willing to take a chance on, especially if there are alternative candidates out there.

I find it hard to believe that by doing a masters and going in a different direction will lead you to higher paid jobs, as you. You are 40 years old, which means you'll be up against people with the qualification and ten or fifteen years experience... so I would not bet on there being many senior people out there being willing to take a gamble on you, where there are good alternative candidates.

I think if you are not willing to make the sacrifices and put in the effort to qualify as an accountant then your original option 4 is probably what it comes down to.

lbunnae

I did ACA which is 3.5 years but I know people who did ACCA in 2 certainly in 2.5. If you have good experience in accounting it’ll certainly help with the first half of them anyway as well. Just go for it, you’ll regret not doing it. In 3 years you might be still thinking of doing them instead of being done with them.

witchgirl26

OP ACA takes about 3 years to cover off the exams even without any exemptions so the 4-6 years that you estimated is wrong. Training contracts for new grads from college are 3.5 years and that is allow the time for those with no exemptions at all. It would require a bit of work and help from your workplace to do.

Like others have said, ACCA or CIMA could also be really good options for you. CIMA have a number of exam sittings a year (I think it's 4) so even if you sat 1 exam at each sitting (so less pressure on yourself) then you'd be done pretty quickly with them.

Realistically without a qualification it looks like you'll be stuck where you are based on what you've said. And having the qualification can really stand to you. Experience counts for a great deal but so does the qualification. Also if work want you to get this, you may find there are supports for it. Whether they pay for it for you, pay part, provide some time off for exams and studying. It's worth doing a bit more research into the options and properly talk to the different institutes about the study routes etc. I know one person I worked with got some exemptions because of level of experience which they did take into account. Once you have all that, maybe make a plan & present it to your manager with facts, figures etc. It looks a lot better to have everything ready to go and showing them exact costs & expected timelines.

Board.surf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121709680#Comment_121709680

I'm not at all data entry or book keeping. I work at operational to strategic level and have for over 9 years now. Management accounting, project management, Financial compliance, procedural and regulation improvement etc.

But yes, you are correct that I have a family and other obligations. I'm fairly busy. I can handle some study and have completed other educational certifications over the years but I am very realistic about what any individual can achieve in my situation. I am now looking into CIMA though and looking for the support I'll need to get through it.

Board.surf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121711188#Comment_121711188

I find you're assertion that I am flat out wrong quite abrasive. I don't have the luxury of studying the same as someone taking the ACA exams in the correct and set fashion over 2 to 3 years. I have a life with children etc.

I have provided a detailed case to my employer many times. It's the public sector. Things don't work like that. Your assumptions that I haven't read into this at all say a lot about you. My timeline is based off of no help, no exemptions etc as that's what I have on front of me after reading into it.

If I did CIMA, that's 9 exams and 3 case studies. Not a quick path at all and definitely 4 to 6 years. Longer again if I did 1 exam a year as you then stated. I have put yet another case to my employer for CIMAs new accelerated leadership programme and will likely not hear back. I am considering just doing it myself, paying for it, and forcing it through over 3 years but the damage to someone family life and obligations is fairly large doing something like that. I'm a 24/7 person with constant responsibilities who doesn't get down time. It's not like I have margins like pub time to cut into for extra study time.

The condescending approach really isn't appreciated.

Board.surf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121710814#Comment_121710814

Appreciate the positive attitude. ACA wouldn't work for me at all. ACCA may be a bit lengthy with Zero support from an employer. There may be a new route through CIMA that I'm now looking into.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121746353#Comment_121746353

In some public service roles you can find yourself doing stuff way above your pay grade, that’s for sure, and you will never get rewarded for being take ted at what you do. I’ve seen it, been there.

Board.surf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121746466#Comment_121746466

You basically get dumped on if you work hard. If you don't, you don't! And I always take on the work and the learning. It's just a personality thing. Happier this way though. Can't imagine sitting around doing nothing.

the14thwarrior

i feel for you, and my bit of advice is this,

rather than applying for jobs above your grade (i.e. a promotion) look to applying for jobs at the same level as you are. once you move, you will then gain a reputation, make contacts, and perhaps have the opportunity to do higher grade jobs temporary etc. then you will be the one applying for "your job".

getting a higher grade job in an area / division where no one knows you is hard. because it is a system ...... who you know, who knows you, etc.

time and time again thats how people move up in the public sector. On occasion you might get lucky but consistently getting 2 or 3 on a panel speaks to me that the job you applied for might have someone else's name on it.

keep applying though, things can happen.

you qualified enough

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121746423#Comment_121746423

ACA isn’t as flexible alright. Zero support is rough, presume you can claim 20% back of all the fees on your tax return. If they are willing to support CIMA absolutely go for it. But defo give it a go it isn’t a long time in the concept of how many working years you have left at all!

Board.surf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121746486#Comment_121746486

You seem to get the system alright. There seems to be a lot of that. I did this kind of move before and it worked to get me to where I am. But I've moved sideways a few times now and I'm the "go to" person and have been for many years at my grade.

I won't give in though. It's just very difficult to have faith in such a broken system. I will go for CIMA and apply for jobs here and there if a suitable step up arises.

I'll stay positive anyway. That's the main thing.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121746533#Comment_121746533

Not sure what grade you are but the accountancy degree defo opens you up to a grade 2 (easily enough usually want 2 years PQE) then a grade 1 with a few years on top of that .Also eases access to AP and PO. Defo worth doing.

witchgirl26

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121746402#Comment_121746402

OP I'm sorry if you read it that I was trying to say you were flat out wrong or that I was assuming anything. I was solely going off what you had said. ACA has a time limit on how long to get the exams. That is what I was trying to get at. And I appreciate that with children it is difficult to do but I do know people who have done it, that's all. It took a fair bit of sacrifice but that sometimes is needed to get there. I was not able to go to the twice weekly lectures my final year of ACA training due to family circumstances but there is a method whereby I went to 1 bulk lecture a month on a Saturday morning & did the rest of my learning myself. I believe this still exists. And yes, ACA is not that flexible a learning model.

I'm sorry again, I wasn't making assumptions you hadn't read into it, I was just trying to provide options for yourself. I'm not in the public sector so I don't understand how it goes but I know it's more complicated. I also meant if you hadn't done it to actually talk to someone in one of the bodies as opposed to just going off the information on the website. It can mean that they are able to offer tailored help because what is on the websites is quite generic. I did it myself recently for a qualification and by talking to them realised that because of experience, I was exempt from half the course which I did not get from reading the website.

I didn't state 1 exam a year - there are 4 sittings of exams a year with CIMA so you could do 4 exams a year. My friend is currently doing this route (and has children etc) and has found it more straightforward as she is able to concentrate on one subject for the 3 months before the exam & then move on. I know it's not easy. I recently just did a course & also don't have "pub time" that could be cut so it ended up being after my child was asleep at night or during lunch at work. So I do understand.

Again I wasn't trying to be condescending at all and I'm sorry if it came across that way.

I don't know if you've looked at it but would CPA be an option for you? I understand the learning is more flexible.