Viktor Orbán - A thorn in the EU's side

Beta Ray Bill

Been following this the last week or so:

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/europe/2024/01/29/pressure-grows-on-hungary-in-advance-of-crunch-meeting-on-ukraine-funds/

Surprised it hasn't been brought up yet.

In a nut shell Viktor Orbán is Pro-Russia and very pro Putin. He's the only EU leader to meet Putin since the invasion of Ukraine and also shake his hand. He has not visited Ukraine since the invasion began.

He's constantly blocked or tried to block EU funding/aid/weapons for Ukraine and has vetoed proposals of EU sanctions against Russia.

The EU has basically had enough of him now and it prepared to tank the Hungarian Economy by public stating they will withhold EU funding for Hungary to scare off investment which in turn will have an affect on public spending. There's also talk of stripping Hungary of their EU vote, and even being booted out of NATO.

The Hungarian government is clearly anti EU at this point in time. They've seen the mess leaving the EU can cause (Brexit), and so instead have just decided to be an absolute pain in the swiss. I think given the unrest in the world, there needs t be a facility for the EU to gradually remove a member from the EU. IE 5 stages of being thrown out if you don't cop on to the EU program.

I think there is a lot more to come on this one.

Podge_irl

Probably worth noting that the EU would have been considering withholding funding for Rule of Law violations in Hungary anyway, regardless of the Russian aspect. Orban is happy to take their money while blaming everything under the sun on them.

Brussels Sprout

He needs that EU money as well. It goes to line the pockets of his cronies via infrastructural projects that only they get to bid on. Pretty much like every other populist regime it's divisive bile for the masses and the actual spoils for the inner circle (ironically enough).

breezy1985

Orban is an absolute coward. Flaps on about hating the overbearing EU but scared shtless of losing EU funding or seeing all the emigrants he cant afford to pay for come home from the EU.

mulbot

It's almost like he can't be made to hate Russia.

flutered

he is snookered

ancapailldorcha

It's about time the EU stopped indulging him. If he's breaking the rules, the money should stop. It's only about money for these people so this tactic should work quite quickly.

Sam Russell

The Slovaks are at it now with the corruption court/commission being scrapped. Demonstrations in the street trying to stop it.

Podge_irl

https://twitter.com/panyiszabolcs/status/1754484676280885610?t=j8ty3sPwBcr4rQxtHmUrJQ&s=19

He has to be asking for trouble with this kind of nonsense

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121724914#Comment_121724914

He's playing a very silly game.

Like being booted out of NATO (which could happen) given his rhetoric, would be very bad for him and the people of Hungary. Sweden is a far stronger ally, and an ally who's views line up better with EU than Hungary's does.

Messy.

clearz

What are people's opinions on the EU Vito? I believe the bloc has outgrown its usefulness but I don't think it should be removed completely. Maybe 3-5 votes should be needed to veto something or countries should only get one per x number of years.

Orban has been taking the piss and the EU where right to finally come down hard on him. Illiberalism cannot be tolerated, It is a cancer and will spread if allowed. It is yet another of Merkels' failures. She alone could have reined him at the start but she was too busy also cosying up to Putin for that sweet sweet Russian gas.

Brussels Sprout

Yes. With so many members now in the EU letting any one state have unlimited veto power is not practical.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121897090#Comment_121897090

I suspect we would be one of the first to lose our nut about removing it however.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121897671#Comment_121897671

I would also concur. I'd agree to it on wider EU issues (Conflict, EU Economy), but not localized issues such as policy on Tax or Strategies to combat issues facing Ireland but no one else.

gerogerigegege

He's not a wimp like other EU leaders. Also he looks out for his own people.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910496#Comment_121910496

His own immediate people or his own country folk?

Lucien_Sarti

An interesting & relaxed interview with Orban at 0:50 on the plane back from Kiev, Moscow – he speaks good English.

Something could be announced tomorrow morning.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122352165#Comment_122352165

You mean something beyond Orban's pathetic statement about not realising how far apart the two countries are?

He has no mandate to be there and no mandate to discuss anything. So no, nothing will be announced tomorrow. Bar potentially some more people calling Orban a fool.

I would have thought any European leaders having some form of dialogue with Putin would be a positive...when compared with the complete inactivity to date. Ukraine are not winning/ending this battle any time soon so perhaps some progress can be made.

Hotblack Desiato

Oh right… and what sort of capitulation do you wish Ukraine would enter into?

Jinglejangle69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122352254#Comment_122352254

Well you thought wrong comrade.

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122352254#Comment_122352254

How will Orban, a renowned Putin sycophant, improve things?

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122353410#Comment_122353410

You know the answer, it's the same every time: the "improvement" will consist of Ukraine giving up even more of its territory to appease Putin for a 2nd time. Perhaps with Kyiv having to de-arm itself even more than it had around the lost of Crimea.

Then you insert the usual spiel about NATO, "The West" being the true villains in all this, lots of blather about Kyiv being corrupt (like that's a valid pretext for invading a country), or it's anti-Russian… or all the other talking points that basically rob Ukraine of its own autonomy in this affair and you'll have the usual "Peace At Any Cost" narrative beloved of the friends of Orwell Road, accidental or otherwise.

Jon Doe

Whenever I hear someone claim that "Peace At Any Cost is acceptable", my reaction is always the same: "Good. We'll start by enslaving you. You can start by dropping your pants." It's all fun and games for today's politicians but only until they have to endure some or even any personal cost.

yagan

I read before that he was a leading force in the anti Soviet days and at some stage in the 1980s they banned anyone over the age of 35 from being members as it was felt that age group would be too conflicted about loyalties.

Anyone as we know he was on the right side of history then but in the following decades his party continued on in a revanchist manner towards post WW1 ethnic Hungarian enclaves in other surrounding countries, but mostly Romania.

My impression is that he's not entirely a Putin puppet, but more a Hungary First type who'll align against the EU in order to force a reshape of Europe. I don't it's a gamble either, it's just a long term stance that Orban leads that has no reverse gear.

pureza

I'd agree with the Hungary first analysis above

However he is being duped on that front

His chamberlainesque visit to Moscow the other week,swiftly followed by Moscow bombing a kyiv childrens hospital was not a good look

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415483#Comment_122415483

Hungary first is pure facade; it's stuffing his own and his cronies pockets ala Trump that's his actual motivation. He's using the Hungary first simply to have a power base with bogey men of big bad EU exactly like PIS in Poland etc. and use the same excuse to shut down free media etc. that could expose what he's actually doing.

Furze99

Whatever Orbán represents, he's certainly starting to stoke the idea that exiting the EU should not be a matter of the state's choice like Brexit.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415520#Comment_122415520

I don't believe there is the means in the EU framework to allow this to happen

Interestingly he's seen by many in Hungary as the man who can bring peace to Europe

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415710#Comment_122415710

Well I'm sure that where there's a will, a way will be found. If based on the unanimous decision of all other states and ratified by MEPs etc., it would be a useful mechanism.

fly_agaric

On the "Hungary first" stuff…am pretty sure Orbán would be quite happy to wake up to a fantasy restructuring of Europe with a reborn neofascist version of the USSR for the 21C under Putin , and Hungary is one of the client states ala the old Warsaw pact.

He can be local baron for Russia in Hungary (like Lukashenko in Belarus now). He and cronies will be free to steal orders of magnitude more direct from the state resources all for themselves than they can as part of the EU, in exchange for swearing fealty to Putin.

I think it is more "Orbán and friends first" (but under Putin, or some other corrupt Russian leader) rather than "Hungary first", since am pretty sure average Hungarian will be a lot more miserable in that fantasy world.

28064212

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122415710#Comment_122415710

I don't believe there is the means in the EU framework to allow this to happen

There isn't. The treaties which form the EU (Rome, Maastricht, Lisbon etc.) would need to be amended - these can only be altered with the unanimous agreement of all states.

Article 7 instead provides for the suspension of a member's rights: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_7_of_the_Treaty_on_European_Union

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122416953#Comment_122416953

Reading that it seems a member state could be effectively expelled but still be a member in name as long as the council members (minus the offending state) agree?

Logical I'd say

SVI40

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122352254#Comment_122352254

Who is this? Clare Daly or Mick Wallace??