Insulated room losing heat

Tombo2001

Upstairs room in house is well insulated but seems to lose heat quickly; am trying to work out why.

Its on the return, three of the walls are exterior walls. These have I think 60mm interior wall insulation.

Window is decent, double glaze PVC about 6 years old.

Attic overhead is well insulated, except that watertank is overhead and nothing under this.

Room downstairs isnt insulated at all. We are hoping to renovate it soon.

Finally, there is a no insulation on the window reveals, not sure the exact term but on the opening of the wall where the window is.

Am trying to work out why it loses heat so quickly, is it all of the above or mainly because of downstairs room...?

THanks in advance.

whizbang

There's no thermal mass; Air isnt a good thermal store.

Is there ventilation?

10-10-20

If you have the option of obtaining an IR thermometer try use it on a cold day when the room is well warmed up. You might find that the top of the wall just under the ceiling is a bigger loss (by surface-area) than the reveals. While the reveals can cause loss, they can be relined with insulated plasterboard, but it's not such an easy job if the loss is from the cavity closer at the top of the wall.

Good thread here:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058280833/two-4-blocks-on-cavity-wall-cold-bridging-issue

Gusser09

60mm isnt great either.

Lift off skirting for a start and have a look.

greasepalm

What i got started years ago when rooms were getting done my brickwork on the inside got insulation boards fitted + the ceiling as old houses had paper boards with easy to put a hole in it. Windows are double glazed also. Rad beside bed not switched on.

I like a cool room to sleep in and even at -10c outside i am cosy inside. Drafts will cool rooms down quickly , check any vents are not cooling rooms down , attic trapdoor sealed? open chimneys?

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121679763#Comment_121679763

No, none

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121682419#Comment_121682419

Thats not including plasterboard, it was thicker including plasterboard.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121682380#Comment_121682380

How does an IR thermometer show heat loss- as opposed to just measuring the temperature of something?

For example, to your point, how would an IR thermometer show that the top of the wall is a bigger loss than the reveals?

youtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121691069#Comment_121691069

I bought a cheap(ish) Black and Decker IR thermometer (that is marketed as a Thermal Leak Detector). You point it at the wall when you turn it on. It measures this point and this is the 'set point', and you get a green dot on the wall. You then move it around the wall and colder spots give a blue dot and hotter spots change to a red dot. It allows you scan a wall, window etc. and you can quickly highlight area where there is a temperature difference and hence areas where there is more heat loss than another. It's obviously not as good as a FLIR camera, but is a fraction of the cost.

My 50 year old house has non bonded beaded insulation in the cavity. I can see using this device that the insulation has 'sagged' and only extends to about the top of the window. When I move this device up the wall the dot changes from green to blue about level with the top of the window.

Sleeper12

Start by insulation under the attic tank. Leaving under the attic tank without insulation is a big no no. It's a train of thought that went out the window over 20 years ago. 200 to 300mm under the tank, then insulate around the tank (the tank itself). You can lose up to 20% of the house heat into the attic if not insulated. You are losing a lot under the tank.

60mm isn't much wall insulation by today's standards and this will be noticeable with 3 outside walls in the room. Depending on how much money & effort you want to put in you might want to up wall insulation to 100mm

Biggest payback for little money and effort is going to be attic tank area

sundodger5

IR thermometerin Lidl at the moment for 17.99.

For that price worth a shot.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121691069#Comment_121691069

Because once you understand the concept that all heat on Earth tries to move from the warm region into a cold region, you'll see that by having a cold spot on the wall is an indication of heat-loss within a heated house. The difference between the internal ambient temperature and the external temperature is an indication of the rate of flow of that heat.

Hopefully that helps.

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121691299#Comment_121691299

I have this and it's really useful.

Other than the obvious point about the area under the water tank, check for draughts coming in under the skirting or anywhere else there's a gap. Our kitchen is the only properly insulated room in the house but whenever the wind is coming from the east it's freezing, and it's because there are draughts coming in. Using the IR thermometer I've been able to find that the area behind the skirting is one of the problem areas but haven't tracked down where the air is actually getting in yet. The IR thermometer also allowed me to check that the walls, ceilings etc weren't cold so it's not missing insulation that's the problem.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121691964#Comment_121691964

Hiya - so I went out and bought the thermometer.

Turned the heating on for a while - wall temperature at 17/18 degrees. Ceiling is mostly in the 16s but ceiling in corners of room where also there is a small bit of mould.

Floor is in the 14s, some parts in the 13s. But is that not just because heat rises? Or does that indicate the floor is the problem.

How much of a differential shows there is a draft?

Tks.

Samson1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121695938#Comment_121695938

Sounds like the floor IS a problem. Is this correct ??

loyatemu

you'd expect the floor to be cooler but maybe not by that much. What's underneath the room, what sort of covering is on the floor?

Just as an example, the ground floor room I'm in now, the walls are insulated and my thermometer shows that they're at a decent temperature as is the ceiling. But the floor is a suspended timber floor over a ventilated void and it is cold (and draughty around the edges). The window frame is also much colder than the walls and although the window is double glazed, it's huge and is definitely a source of cold. The room is west facing and when the wind is blowing from the west or south west (which is most of the time), it blows under the floor and up into the room making it cold. When the wind is from the east this room is much easier to heat.

The thermometer won't pick up draughts directly, but you should be able to feel them with the back of your hand, or light a tealight candle and see if you can see it flickering or blowing in a particular direction in different parts of the room.

whizbang

In the house im in now, The walls are consrtructed of 9" thick cavity (hollow) block. The Joists for the upstairs floors are simply mounted on the top of the block, some cut off (read 'Hacked') solids are placed between the joists on the inside edge and outside edge of the cavity block, then the next course of cavity blocks are placed on top of this.

This forms a continous cavity from foundation to roof. The topmost blocks are not capped, so any air that gets into the cavity flows straight out the top. Heat rising of course sets up a draught as good as any chimney.

Now the problem is where the joists penetrate into the wall, the hacked off block leaves a gap. If there's 25 joists, and each joist has a 10mm gap each side of it, thats (25x 2 x 225 x 10)mm Thats a 0.11 square meter hole from the inside of your house to what is effectively the outside. Doesnt sound like a lot, but its 1/2 meter long by 1/4 high, or might sound more accurate if you say 200 Sq inches.

So the 60mm insulation should be extended under the upstairs floor to seal to the plasterboard ceiling below, and sealed to each joist.

mulbot

I bet you've a laminate floor