COMBI BOILER URGENT HELP!

joiedelivre

Hi all, need your help.

Does anyone have a copy of Irish Regs around placement of combi boilers they might direct me to or info re: same? I'm planning to get a combi boiler (fed off attic water tank & pump to service 1 x upstairs bathroom shower/bath + one new wetroom downstairs to be installed same time as new combi) to replace a 30 year old standard gas boiler system. Although comic will serve 2 showers, it won't be at the same time. My current standard boiler system is +30 years old & still works fine but will be removed from its existing bathroom cupboard that backs onto an outer wall on one side and a bath on the other. Are there/what are the (if any) restrictions around putting the combi into the same cupboard (which will be rebuilt) in my upstairs bathroom on the interior of the outside wall? It's right below the attic water tank & position where pump will go. I could move the bathtub to another wall giving at least a meter distance from cupboard. The existing boiler cupboard is also c. 2.5 -3m from toilet & sink. In this position the steam flue would go out the back wall (which the standard boiler currently does) and the boiler would also have fairly easy access to any downward waster pipes if necessary. Some folks have said you can't have a combi in a bathroom but the BAXI booklet doesn't say no. It says to check Irish regs which I cannot find in detail anywhere officially. Any help would be appreciated. Plumbers are giving me different points of view AND I cannot find the Ireland Regs online. If anyone can point me in the direction, that would be appreciated too. Many thanks, Joie

Iguarantee

Ring the RGI.

Calahonda52

Some folks have said you can't have a combi in a bathroom makes no sense as one of the main benefits of the combi in the bathroom is very short pipe runs

In any event how is a combi different from what you have?

assuming

1 the combi is room sealed and

2 being inside the press will meet the elec requirements

the condensate pipe need to be protected from frost and vent to a shore using plastic pipe all the way

Sleeper12

Don't know if you can have a combi in a bathroom or not. I vaguely remember gas boilers being banned in the UK back in the 80s. I think carbon monoxide deaths were a big issue at the time.

I can say that I'm working in dozens of bathrooms each week and can't recall seeing a boiler in any. Attic is becoming a more common place in recent years

zg3409

You may not be able to feed combi from a water tank. Most are designed to run direct from high pressure mains water, and high pressure mains is not that common in Ireland. Even the pressure in NI seems much higher.

I know you talk about a tank and pump. You may need a specific boiler intended for this.

https://www.salamanderpumps.co.uk/customer-support/articles/the-effects-of-high-low-combi-boiler-water-pressure/#:~:text=Most%20combi%20boilers%20receive%20water,performance%20of%20your%20boiler%20changes.

One of the benefits of a combi is that you have nearly instant hot water without needing a hot water cylinder, similarly hot water in kitchen taps. Another benefit is if you have a long shower or multiple showers in a row then the water nevet goes cold. If you feed it from an attic water tank and have a lot of shower or multiple showers then the pump may drain the attic tank at a quicker speed than it fills and so the water will run out, at that point the shower stops working. This could be mitigated with a bigger attic tank if needed.

Combi is not ideal for feeding too bathrooms as you may get hot/cold sudden changes. Possibly less of an issue if you use proper thermostatic shower controls.

I would just be hesitant putting a combi in a non apartment more than one bathroom set up. The hot tank is designed to store hot water for a good bath or shower for a multi person household. If the gas boiler is zoned to heat the hot water tank only and designed and timed to heat water when needed then a standard non combi boiler works well.

I suggest a normal boiler and a separate pump to increase pressure. Use hot tank to hold water. I have such a system and it gives a hotel like shower for 2-3 showers in a row. The pressure is higher than a combi set up as there is more hot water than a combi can supply. I suggest being sure of performance before spending money. Most plumbers recommend a non combi set up.

Sleeper12

You most definitely can & should run the combi from the cold water tank in the attic. Your installer will put a pump between the tank and the combi. The cold water is also pumped. This gives you equal pressure on the hot & cold. Most showers require equal pressure for them to function correctly

hydrus21

There was a reg. about mechanical in-built time clock/programmer not allowed. Remote only. This was 10yrs ago.

Might be different now with digital.

hydrus21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121614015#Comment_121614015

These were open flue appliances opposed to balanced flues. Still not allowed (if you can find one ).

rightjob!

Yes a combi can be fitted in a bathroom,as long as the installation meets manufactures requirements.

If you’re mains pressure is not adequate then a break tank and booster pump can be installed.

ConcretePat

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/25ed9-technical-guidance-document-j-heat-producing-appliances/

Is this what you are looking for?

joiedelivre

Thanks to everyone! Does anyone have access to OR might point me in direction of Irish Regulations wordings about combi-boiler (or any boiler) placement in bathroom, please? I'm contracting an experienced and highly rated bathroom installation company with its own plumber who is part owner. But opinions, advice seems to vary and I'd love to be able to see it in black and white print. I note access to Regs on line aren't really possible (as far as I can find) unless in the trade OR paying money--but it also seems they are currently under review or in process of change. I've had my standard boiler in a tall bathroom cupboard, flue venting to outside for 30+ years. I'd love to use same combi for that cupboard to save space and because I have limited outside facing walls being a terrace house. I've read manufacturer booklets, UK regs, as much as I can about topic but can find NO Irish reg wording. And views of information seem to vary. I live on my own & have been assured that a combi can accommodate two showers (its unlikely both would ever be used at same time in the same way I don't run a washing machine if I run the dishwasher--it just seems logical not to--or if showering). The second shower is for a downstairs wet & toilet area in case I need it in future if injured etc. Thanks again so much.

joiedelivre

Correction regarding this line in my post above: " I'd love to use same combi for that cupboard to save space"--I didn't mean to use word 'same' as the combi it of course totally different from the standard boiler I have... Many thanks...

Sleeper12

Only a RGI plumber can work on the gas part of the heating system. The bathroom company has to use a RGI to move the boiler. He then has to issue you with a RGI certificate. I'm suggesting that the RGI plumber is the one to get advice from as he is the one issuing the cert.

meercat

It’s unlikely that it’s permitted in a bathroom under electrical regulations anyway.most bathrooms aren’t big enough for it to be outside the restricted zones. A cupboard in a bathroom is not permitted to have electrical isolators either

joiedelivre

Thanks so much Concrete Pat for the Irish regs which I couldn't find online until you gave me address! I was searching for boilers rather than 'heat producing appliances' I would never have thought to use that expression ! Other documentation found (aka boiler manufacturers) suggests its okay to put in bathroom and some reputable Irish RGI plumbers suggest on websites: 

"Is it OK to have a boiler in a bathroom? Yes, but certain regulations are in place to ensure it is installed safely. For example, gas boilers with a flue must be mounted on an exterior wall and in a location where the boiler will not get wet. There are also height considerations to take into account as well as need for adequate ventilation. If in doubt always consult a professional" What has me flummoxed is that I've had a standard boiler work fine in Bathroom cupboard under attic water tank but they are saying a combi cannot be there (not related to rising mains). ???

Sleeper12

Meercats post is the most important one on the thread. The wiring regulations will most likely forbid it unless it's a huge bathroom and the boiler is miles away from any water source. It has to be wired by a RECI electrician and he must issue a RECI Cert. So it has to meet wiring regulations

stiophan

Considering a combi will often mean a bigger boiler size than the current boiler. How will the condensate be vented (as acidic water). This may have been allwoed in bathrooms 30 yrs ago but getting a RGI to install one now will be alot harder (no matter if the regs say nothing). Your main bathroom would want excellent fast humidity removal to avoid electrical issues plus where does the fresh air for the boiler come from (the bathroom??). How would the cupboard stay dry. Boilers in Kitchens yes or hotpress rooms with damp clothes- yes. Plus 2 showers needs more water pressure so you will need to see if your mains pressure is good. I am also thinking of a combi but you may need to oversize the boiler to get a bigger internal water tank and then the boiler is oversized for home heating and poorly condenses (ie more gas used). At some stage the ability to deliver hot water to 2 showers or 2 wetrooms will be needed . If space for heating kit is at a premium then a combi (somewhere else) is still a good idea. Combis are the norm in the UK but they are often replacing cupboard boilers with minimal space for hot water cylinders or attic water tanks (like apartments)