Insurance/tax/car off the road

steloide

Hi all.

Long story short:

My wife got a newish car so I got the older one. Later that year I got a company van, so I parked up the car cancel my insurance policy and ignored the car for over a year.

I now want to get it back on the road so my son can get insured and start practice driving. I got my mechanic to do his magic, got it through the NCT and it’s running great again.

Only problem is, I can’t seem to get insurance anywhere. The car is in my wife’s name so there is back tax to be payed but I don’t know if that’s the whole or part issue.

If I put the car in my name, tax it for a few months, will that resolve the getting insurance problem?

If I sell the car will the buyer have the same issue.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Titzon Toast

Did your NCB lapse? There's no reason why the car can't be insured. It would usually be because in the eyes of an insurer you're a "new driver". It's a a crock of **** tbh.

standardg60

Putting it in your name will reset any tax due. Reinstate your insurance on it, your NCB will expire after two years if you don't use it.

You can name your son on the policy to build up his named driver experience.

It's silly not to keep up your insurance/NCB imo even if you have a company car as you never know when you may need to come back to it.

Eggs For Dinner

If you are looking to insure a vehicle which has been off the road for a year, while trying to add a novice driver at the same time, insurers will know that you are fronting for your son.

steloide

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516562#Comment_121516562

I know, thought I might save a few euro by canceling the policy.

steloide

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516831#Comment_121516831

Policy is about a year and a half out so I guess my NCB is still good just didn't try that insurance crowd yet.

As @Titzon Toast said, It's a crock of ****. Im not trying to scam, I'm genuinely trying to do the right thing. Do I get insurance for myself first and later get it for my son? Would it matter whose name the car is in?

Titzon Toast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516876#Comment_121516876

Definitely insure it under your own name first and add him later.

If there's back tax owed it, "sell it" at the end of the month and "buy it back" at the start of the next month.

You can also pause an insurance policy for a small fee if the car is broken down and maybe you can't afford to fix it right now or you're trying to find parts for it. That also keeps your NCB intact for a reasonable fee overall.

Eggs For Dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516876#Comment_121516876

To be blunt, you are trying to scam the system. You are trying to present your circumstances as you being the main driver and your son an occasional driver. In truth , your son will have permanent use of the car

Titzon Toast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517580#Comment_121517580

So what? The system is extremely corrupt and backwards to begin with.

Have at it I say.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121517580#Comment_121517580

To be blunt, try reading the post, the OP said they wanted to name their son on the policy so they can start to practice driving. There is nothing illegal about this, indeed Aviva (i think it's them) have a specific policy where they'll name the learner driver FOC if they take driving lessons with them.

As for 'fronting', if a named driver on a policy is driving within the terms of their licence they are entitled to drive the car as much as the policyholder is, be that 0% of the time or 100% of the time, that is the whole point of being named on it. There is no such thing as a 'main' driver in any legislation AFAIK.

If someone can provide evidence to the contrary i'll be suitably humbled though.

steloide

👍🏻

Eggs For Dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519425#Comment_121519425

I'm not disagreeing with what you say, I'm just calling it as it is

Eggs For Dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519427#Comment_121519427

It has nothing to do with the terms of the licence or legislation. It has to do with the terms and conditions of the contract taken out with the insurer. If you declare that you are the main user of the car, when you are not, it is fronting

Boxcar_Willie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516562#Comment_121516562

If your son is going to be the mail driver then don’t put him down as a named driver , that’s called “fronting” and is illegal .

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519427#Comment_121519427

It’s most definitely illegal.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/travel-and-recreation/motoring/motor-tax-and-insurance/motor-insurance/#:~:text=Fronting%20is%20illegal%20and%20can,policy%20or%20a%20fraud%20conviction.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519975#Comment_121519975

That's just random opinion, have you a link to any legislation?

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519971#Comment_121519971

How is any insurer going to prove that in the event of a claim?

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520056#Comment_121520056

It’s not opinion.

Citixens advice doesn’t do opinions. They do facts.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520072#Comment_121520072

Show me the legislation they are basing their facts on then

Eggs For Dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520078#Comment_121520078

Google "obtaining insurance by deception" and you will find your answer

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520088#Comment_121520088

Why don't you google it and provide the link? Surely it's straightforward

Eggs For Dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520142#Comment_121520142

You've just done it, haven't you? 😎

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520165#Comment_121520165

Nope, i did it beforehand because i'm not stupid. There is no legislation in relation to fronting as far as i can see.

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/road-traffic-amendment-bill-insurance-fronting.207419/

zg3409

You can sell car to yourself and pay no back tax. If you have proof of no claims bonus less than 2 years you should be able to get reasonable insurance quotes.

Typically for training son to drive I recommend lots of professional lessons then apply for a test which can take 6+ months to do. Then keep lessons up and if necessary at that point get insured as named driver. There is not much point a learner being on a policy if they can only drive while accompanied and for the test lots of non professional "lessons" may only bring in bad habits. I know people that passed a driving test with only 2 weeks of practice, but good structured practice and build up skill and confidence. Quotes for learners are typically high as many drive unaccompanied and crash.

Eggs For Dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520224#Comment_121520224

You've literally quoting a random forum to back your argument.

Obtaining insurance by deception is fraud. Fraud is a crime. You can take that information on board, or you can consign it to the bin. I don't really care.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520263#Comment_121520263

There is no deception, if an insurer willingly names someone on a policy and that person drives the car within the terms of their licence then in no way can they be convicted of fraud. There is no legislation in relation to anyone being a 'main' driver or otherwise, regardless of any declaration. Insurers therefore are full of sh1t, and are as usual scaremongering.

Perhaps you don't really care now because you can't actually provide any link or evidence to any fraud being committed.

User1998

Ah lads who gives a f*ck if he’s fronting or not he’s just trying to get his youngfella on the road driving. If you’s have a problem then report it to the Garda otherwise give it a rest.

Eggs For Dinner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520344#Comment_121520344

There is deception if a person is asked about who will be the main driver and an incorrect declaration is made. The insurer is not "willingly" accepting the risk, it has been obtained by fraud and fraud is a crime. Again, it has nothing to do with the terms of the licence.

Goodnight, sleep tight

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520520#Comment_121520520

Again, there is nothing in law about being a main driver, there is either insured or not insured. Insurers know full well that in the event of a claim that being main or not is not actionable.

Eggs For Dinner

Jeez, this is hard and will be my last contribution. There is nothing in law about being a main, or casual driver. I AGREE with that. There is, however, the crime of fraud if you deliberately misrepresent your circumstances in order to secure a policy in the first place

Titzon Toast

I'm glad it's your last post here. Zero help to the OP what so ever.

steloide

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519971#Comment_121519971

Thanks for your input @Eggs For Dinner .

Truth is, I will be the main driver and my son and daughter will learn how to drive using that car, fully insured and everything correct.

9935452

Op check if you no claims is still valid.

If its off the road for the year and a half and you cancelled your insurance, the 2 years could be up.

You wont get credit for the year you cancelled your insurance .

The other thing to try is go through brokers, let them do the running around and they will tell you why you cant get insured.. try premier insurance in thurles

Also what age is the car. Is it over the 10 or15years old. Some insurance companies wont insure older cars

Idbatterim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516862#Comment_121516862

yeah, i did the same. I didnt know when I would use the car again, like you, here I am. I got a good quote with aviva. In terms of tax, how much is the back tax?

Wildly Boaring

Several have said it.

Just change owner from wife to yourself, erases back tax.

Then ensure in your name. Add the son in a couple if months.

Titzon Toast

At the OP, fire off your log book in a different name before the end of this month if you're planning on using the car in January.

That way you can can change it back into your own name from January 1st.