Plumbing a power shower

micks_address

Hi folks,

We have an electric shower in the bathroom that I know is gravity fed from the tank in the attic. It works reasonably well but we'd like more power from it and also potentially like to run it off the hot water cylinder.

Our cylinder was only fitted this year and is only 120 litres so maybe it's to small to run a shower from? We have four people in the house.

The tank is pre insulated and at the moment I'm heating it using immersion at night between 3 and 5am on 5 cents kWh electricity. I have an Eddi connected to it so can top up with solar when available or boost with the gas in the evenings of needs be.

I've see where people heat the tank to maybe something like 65c and use a tmv valve on the tank to reduce the temp down thereby making the hot water last longer and insure no scalding etc.

So my question is on tank size (I don't want to change it)

If it will work. Would it be possible to run a feed from the tank up into the attic and down into the bathroom through the ceiling where the shower unit would be sited?

Is it a hot and cold feed that's required? Could I reuse the cold feed from the tank that's there for for the electric shower and run just a hot feed from the cylinder?

I'd like not to interfere with existing tiling. If I could run the pipes along the tile surface would that be doable? Maybe chrome pipes down from the ceiling?

Obviously would be getting a plumber but check checking the feasibility of it at the moment.

Would you need a pump for the shower feed or would the shower on its own be powerful enough?

Thanks

Mick

Lenar3556

Your cylinder is on the small side, particularly given that you want to make best use of solar and off peak power. Many houses have that cylinder size, but it would typically be backed by a gas or oil boiler to immediately start bringing it back up to temp. So I think there would be a good case to be made for a larger cylinder if that was any way feasible.

The remained of your proposal sounds fine. It would likely look much better to have the pipes coming into the back of the shower and hidden. It is on a studded wall? Or solid block?

The integral pump on the power shower will be fine, you don’t need another pump.

micks_address

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508492#Comment_121508492

Thank you. It would be a studded tiled wall where the shower is currently mounted. I guess I could try the current cylinder and see how I get on? I wouldn't mind using the gas to boost the cylinder when needed. I would be rare we have multiple showers consecutively but can happen. Any suggestions for a good pumped shower? One of the goals would be to have a stronger flow.

Cheers

Mick

Lenar3556

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508749#Comment_121508749

The Triton Novel SR would probably be the most common and good value for money. It should deliver twice to three times the flow rate of what you have currently.

It might be possible to get the pipes down through the studded wall. Even if it had to be opened from the other side if needed.

micks_address

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121508802#Comment_121508802

Can the hot feed be qualpex? Might we worth trying. Can't really access from the other side as it's just freshly decorated.

Sleeper12

Best option is to keep the electric shower and install a Triton novel SR silent running thermostatic power shower. The electric shower can be used as backup for when there is no hot water in the cylinder. You will run out of hot water if you have several showers after each one. It takes about two hours to heat a full cylinder from scratch.

If you do remove the electric shower you should know that the electrical supply isn't suitable or safe for a power shower. Cable is way too large to use safely in a power shower and the RCBO at the fuse box is way to big for a power shower. You will definitely need an electrician on the job to make it safe

denismc

We have a 120 lt cylinder heated with an eddi in summer and oil/electricity in winter. The cylinder feeds a mixer shower fed by a booster pump located next to the cylinder

We find that with 120 lts you have enough hot water for 2 long showers (15 minutes) or maybe 3 shorter showers, I think you will struggle to get 4 full showers out of 120 lts unless you stagger your showers over several days.

micks_address

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510789#Comment_121510789

I suppose could always go with the shower and keep the cylinder and see how it goes. It would be rare we'd have more than two showers in a row. I'm only ever 3 minutes in the shower, teenage daughter is probably the longest..wife and then adult son. I guess keeping the electric shower is also an option. Would just look a little odd having two showers?

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121511055#Comment_121511055

I repair & fit showers for a living. Plenty of people have two showers in the one shower cubicle

micks_address

Happy new year folks,

Thinking of going with a shower pump and mixer shower along side the electric shower. Are their better or worse mixer showers?

https://www.chadwicks.ie/all-products/plumbing-1/showers-enclosures/showers-mixer.html

what size / power pump would you be looking at?

Cheers

Mick

micks_address

Any issues with this shower folks? Think it's a UK model so would there be challenges with fittings etc?

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/triton-leona-rear-fed-exposed-chrome-thermostatic-bar-diverter-mixer-shower/783fj

micks_address

hi folks,

i want to plumb our shower from the ceiling - run chrome pipes down to avoid tiles/wall work - i've seen these from Triton

https://www.tritonshowers.co.uk/mixer-shower-fixing-exposed-pipework

The issue is they will sit the bar out from the wall which means the bracket for the fixed pipe/showerhead will need some kind of spacer between it

Any suggestions for materials to use? i guess would need to be waterproof.

micks_address

This is the bracket for holding the upright bar in place. It looks like it would be adjustable with the grub screw. If there's not enough I think it could add some 25mm rubber washers behind the wall fixing which should do the trick.

Of course when I say I can add I mean the plumber that will be fitting it

micks_address

It looks like if plumbed from the rear the pipework would extend 35mm

with the exposed pipework fitting 44mm. I might get away with the grub screw adjustment but a 10mm washer or a couple of 5s etc should do the job hopefully.

micks_address

Shower finally plumbed in today. Had a tmv fitted on the clyinder as well. Shower is such a nice experience compared to the electric. Electric still there as backup but I can't see it getting much use!

micks_address

Nice and tidy

foxhunter2024

Looks well, is your house a bungalow that you had attic to get back to the hot press and fit a 2 bar pump?

micks_address

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885884#Comment_121885884

No it's two story. 2 bar pump in hotpress. Cold water tank is on a raised platform in the attic. Was worried pump wouldn't work but it's flying it. Went with surface mounted pipework to avoid ripping tiles

foxhunter2024

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885933#Comment_121885933

The chrome surface pipes look good, fair play nice result.

micks_address

Have a question on qualpex piping - is there any value insulating it in the hotpress/attic?

Thanks,

Mick

foxhunter2024

I’d insulate it in the attic and use all round band to fix it.

micks_address

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121887430#Comment_121887430

had a look in the attic and its actually running under the attic insulation so its probably insulated well enough with that? i might do the hotpress.

Sleeper12

Haven't done it myself yet but building regulations say it should be insulated. Again I haven't done it myself yet but it makes sense to insulate as much of the pipe work as possible. In the 80s when I was training the belief was that the lost heat was going back into the house, so not lost heat. Modern thought with science behind it says otherwise

Bannerman1969

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121885284#Comment_121885284

Currently in the process of doing the same and also keeping the electric shower. Might not connect hose to electric shower and only connect electric shower to hose off new shower when needed. Only one shower jose in cubicle then. Might be a little less cluttered looking providing hose connections are the same which I presume they are. Good job BTW.

micks_address

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122008606#Comment_122008606

Needless to say out electric shower hasn't been used since... Tank is doing ok.. daughter had a 20 minutes shower the other night which pushed it . Having the temp sensors on the tank and boosting from the gas for 30 minutes seems to cover most occasions

micks_address

i should have clarified on the home automation.. ive a 120 litre tank so two longish showers would drain it.. ive temp sensors top middle and bottom of the tank which allow me to track the water temp.. ive home automation with home assistant which boosts the hot water for the cylinder for 30 minutes once the temp in the middle of the tank drops below 35 degrees.. i also heat it via the immersion at night as we've cheap rates between 2 and 5am.. 5.5 cents per kwh.. im not sure overall we'd be saving in energy usage over the electric shower.. but the shower experience is way nicer..