TDs questioning McManus and tax avoidance - Is McManus using charities and sports for tax purposes?

evolvingtipperary101

Is McManus avoiding taxes or just living somewhere else? Does anyone have any real evidence that McManus is engaging in charity performances for tax benefits/personal gain?

Talking about billionaires not paying tax is like saying the sun will come up tomorrow. No ****.

The USA might have income tax for worldwide citizens... but the reality is something very different. Just like every country. Money does what money wants. And that's every country in the world. 

Jeff Bezos, Michael Bloomberg, Elon Musk and George Soros are household names. They are worth billions and are among the wealthiest people in the United States. A recent report by ProPublica has found another thing that separates them from regular Americans: They have paid almost nothing in taxes.15 Jun 2021

Why Billionaires Pay So Little Tax - The New York Times

The U.S. Is Losing $1 Trillion Annually to Tax Cheats - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Look at Trump's tax returns. But unless you can provide evidence and a report like this: Vast Majority Of Trump’s Charitable Giving Reportedly Came From Land Deals (forbes.com) Is there any point to setting up a thread on McManus and questioning his charities and taxes... Trump lives in the USA... McManus built a house in Barbados worth around 150 million about ten years ago. But the reality is, he's living between London, Dublin, Barbados, and where ever else he wants. His offices are in Geneva.

If you think McManus, or any billionaire or any billionaire company, are wasting their time handling their taxes you're mistaken. They have other people to do that for them. I'd imagine they have numerous different accounting firms keeping each other honest. They get advice from experts in the relevant field, they take the advice. They grow their businesses and pile up their money. It's an addiction. An obsession. You can't grow that kind of wealth without being completely addicted to money.

Here's how they do it:

Ten Ways Billionaires Avoid Taxes on an Epic Scale — ProPublica

Jim2007

You left out the bit about TDs and a link as well as demonstrating you have not got a clue of the topic of Irish taxes or accumulation wealth.

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497308#Comment_121497308

I don't have to put a link to the TDs? It's everywhere in the news, online and off.

How did I demonstrate that?

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497335#Comment_121497335

Your entire posting tells us you’ve had a visit form the little green monster and you are just jealous of their achievements, while you flounder around looking for excuses for your failures.

Everyone takes fully advantage of the tax breaks available to them including you, be it on mortgages, pensions or whatever. And many many people build up a very nice nest egg for themselves through hard work and business skills. But if you want to believe it is all the result of tax evasion etc that is up to you.

Newspapers and other media need to sell advertising and the best way to do that is publishing the stuff you parrot off about the couple of individuals you mentioned (no TD though, why that?). And if you want to believe that is how everyone is getting ahead in life, but you, then that is fine, I’m not going to debate it with you.

Tefral

The people whinging about this would be doing the same.

The fact of the matter he is doing nothing illegal and on top of that is an enormous helper of the community, that he could just not do.

He gave new jet skis to the search and rescue, paid UL the money for their business school, gave limerick GAA untold amounts of money over the years, paid for the redevelopment of Limericks Market field, helps 100 young men every year in a disadvantaged school by paying their way through college.

There are tons more.

He pays "taxes" alright, just puts the money where its most needed.

Fair play to him

Sam Russell

Avoiding taxes is only possible if the tax payer is potentially liable for the tax in the first place. Tax avoidance is legal - it is tax evasion that is illegal.

For example, if you win a few million on the lottery [which is tax free to the ticket holder(s)], so if you want to give part of the winner to someone, you can avoid gift tax by putting their names on the ticket before the prize is collected. What is wrong with that?

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497489#Comment_121497489

You've attacked the poster, not the post. Not to mention you've completely misread the post. I haven't suggested they're doing anything illegal. I've made no real statement at all. I asked a series of questions and questioned their validity.

A very bizarre post.

I haven't parroted anything. I asked questions without statements and provided links to journalistic work. You haven't provided anything.

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497539#Comment_121497539

Exactly, that's what I said: 'Is there any point to setting up a thread on McManus and questioning his charities and taxes... Trump lives in the USA... McManus built a house in Barbados worth around 150 million about ten years ago. But the reality is, he's living between London, Dublin, Barbados, and where ever else he wants. His offices are in Geneva.'

Last night you could access the links I posts in my original post. That's not the case now. Why has that happened?

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497489#Comment_121497489

Can you explain my failures to me, please?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497517#Comment_121497517

He pays "taxes" alright, just puts the money where its most needed.

He can (legally) do what he wants with his money and it is good that he has a charitable streak.

This is completely untrue though. If everyone was able to pay their taxes where they considered it needed we would end up with a completely dysfunctional country with key services unfunded and several things wildly overfunded. He is providing charitable aid but it is in no way, shape or form comparable to paying taxes.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497517#Comment_121497517

Ah now father, puts the money where it’s most needed. 32m into the GAA?

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121499096#Comment_121499096

The Irish state isn't exactly short of cash is it? If anything, it would appear that putting more money into things doesn't make anything better in this country. Has the HSE improved in the last 10 years despite year after year of corporation tax windfalls being thrown into that black hole?

The Exchequer took in almost 50bn more in revenue in 2022 than it did in 2015. Money availability clearly isn't an issue for the Government.

evolvingtipperary101

The money JP puts into Milford is fantastic. Got it off the ground and helps sustain it.

Tefral

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121499096#Comment_121499096

Yeah a grass roots centre of the community organisation that has some whack of young boy and girls out playing sports 2 or 3 times a week.

If he paid the equivalent in taxes it would just be vapourised giving freebies to people walking into this country as economic migrants.

Im glad he is bypassing all these big quangos with CEOs on massive money. When JP hands out money it goes to the people that need it.

Look at Milford Hospice, built a whole new wing out there. I dont think there is a person in Limerick not touched by that place somehow.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121499670#Comment_121499670

But it wouldnt be the equivalent in taxes.

StormForce13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121499546#Comment_121499546

Of course the HSE has improved over the last decade. Have you some credible evidence to the contrary, because if so then why not put it up so we can discuss it?

beggars_bush

Gets free money from the state via the horse racing fund then gives it out.

Brussels Sprout

I'd love to know how many of the people defending JP McManus for gaming the system would be equally happy to defend Bono for doing likewise.

SharkMX

Where is he tax resident?

If its not in Ireland then hes a liable for tax here as i am for tax in Kenya.

Geuze

AFAIK, Switzerland.

CrabRevolution

If I was stupid rich I'd avoid tax too and give directly to the causes I wanted. The "social contract" in taxes goes 2 ways, and implies that in return you get value for the taxes handed over.

The budget for 2014 was €50 Billion, the one announced for 2024 is just shy of €100 Billion; in 10 years annual expenditure by the state has doubled but with precious little to show for it.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121502159#Comment_121502159

Horse owners don’t get anything from the state.

tobefrank321

I'm a huge fan of the GAA. But I'd rather he'd also contribute to the running of the country via taxes. Its a bit unfair that he can benefit from using our roads, airports, and public services but not make a proportional contribution to their upkeep like the rest of us have to.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520009#Comment_121520009

Giving to the GAA is high profile and guaranteed good publicity.

Paying for roads, hospitals, fire brigades, public services, etc would never bring the same level of good publicity.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520093#Comment_121520093

Should the almost 7 million tourists that visit Ireland during the year also pay tax here to cover their use of roads, airports etc.?

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510669#Comment_121510669

Bono should pay tax here too. And there's been a lot of questioning of that as well. He preaches to governments including to Irelands that they needed to send more aid to Africa but when it came time to pay tax towards that aid he had a change of heart. He lost a lot of fans, myself included because of that.

Tombo2001

He is doing absolutely nothing illegal - and tbf doing what most of us would do in his position by (I assume) offshoring to minimize tax bills, and paying tax outside of Ireland.

His 'generosity' to the GAA is well founded, I've no doubt, and absolutely nothing to do with tax as this (I assume) is a drop in the ocean for him.

Not being smart, but I dont think this money will actually go very far in the GAA. I think it will help pay for elite squads; which really doesnt help anyone outside of Elite squads. The GAA is much bigger than that, at club level it will make little impact; and at intercounty level, players get a gym, maybe a new all weather and nicer kit. Or something like that. But Dublin will still be winning, and Leitrim will still struggle.

The issue people have I think isnt so much that he is doing it, but the narrative about his 'generosity'. Compare and contrast with Michael O'Leary who stays here and pays taxes here that (I assume) are far in excess of what JP has donated. Does anyone say what a great lads he is for doing it?

Long story short - in Ireland, optics matter more than facts, and I think thats what Brolly et al are pissed off about.

Also, its a bit funny how lads that 'want no publicity for it' seem to manage to get loads of publicity nonetheless.

We'd all love to be able to say, well I wont pay tax, but that one thing I am interested in - I'll put money towards it.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520105#Comment_121520105

Tourist indirectly and directly pay substantial tax, and they are here at most a couple of weeks. They certainly do not have substantial properties, businesses and assets here.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520131#Comment_121520131

Its not intended for elite squads. Its intended for clubs. Most clubs will get under 10k. Its not life changing for them.

CrabRevolution

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520102#Comment_121520102

I'm not against public services (I worked in the HSE for years myself). However the Irish state is absurdly wasteful, inefficient and wrongly prioritised in how it spends its money.

Has our fire brigade capability increased since 2014? Has the HSE anything to show for its ever expanding spend other than avoiding collapse? We've precious little infrastructure to show for all that money, maybe the Luas and the M17/M18 which cost less than a billion combined. Housing is a crisis which has gotten worse and worse.

If I was JP level rich and instead paid €32 million in tax, it'd gall me to see bailouts of RTÉ or the FAI. Or enormous tax breaks for film companies. Or disappear into the NGO/lobby group/"charity" sector.

TokTik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520125#Comment_121520125

All of U2 are tax resident in Ireland.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520163#Comment_121520163

Fair enough, same thing though. Maybe some of them can use it to pay for all those fines the GAA hands out for on-field 'melees'.

CrabRevolution

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520178#Comment_121520178

How is it the "same thing"? Giving it to clubs is the complete opposite to spending it on inter county teams.

beggars_bush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520027#Comment_121520027

Where do the prize funds for winning races come from?

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520173#Comment_121520173

Yep but their royalties are based offshore. And given much of their income comes from their royalties I'd imagine Irish revenue are losing out substantially.

evolvingtipperary101

Milford Care Centre will soon be fully state-funded, with Minister for Health, Stephen Donnelly announcing the redesignation of four voluntary hospice providers across the country. 

The move, which will take effect in February, will provide a “sustainable model of care” for adult specialist palliative care services in Ireland and ensure the “provision of these core services into the future.”

A spokesperson for the Department of Health confirmed the news, with three other hospices in Dublin and Galway also taking part in the transition. 

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121510669#Comment_121510669

Does the U2 company pay tax abroad (in NL?) but Bono pay tax is Ireland?