Should I become a teacher? (Mature entry, PME)

Maestro23

Thinking about doing a PME to teach at secondary schools (Science subjects) but few concerns listed below

I'll be 34 when I qualify (2 year PME beginning in Sep next year). Makes getting a mortgage difficult in the future

I haven't been inside a school since I did my leaving cert and it sounds like things have changed a lot in the classroom, still unsure if it's for me but it does sound like a very rewarding career.

If you're a teacher would you recommend getting into it this late, or alternatively if you were a teacher and changed career are you happier? My experience to date is sales related.

Nigel Fairservice

Just on the mortgage aspect, I'm 40 in a few weeks and recently got approved for a 30 year mortgage. Getting a permanent job as a teacher might take longer. My sister found a permanent teaching position 3 years after qualifying but she has met people qualified a few years longer than her that still are not permanant. You might face uncertainly in that regard.

gaiscioch

1. 34 is not late, given you're going to be working until you're 70 or so.

2. Do the sums: multiply your income by 3.5-4 times and see what sort of mortgage you will get (https://tinyurl.com/whedyy3y). Then jump on myhome.ie/daft.ie and see where in Ireland you can buy a house for that figure (https://www.myhome.ie/residential/ireland/detached-house-for-sale?maxprice=200000&minbeds=4). Indeed, even jump to the ASTI salary section and multiply your salary in 4 years time by the same multiple and see where you can get (https://www.asti.ie/your-employment/pay/salary-scales/post-2011-common-basic-scale/). It's sobering, isn't it?

3. Even add your salary and that of the person you're thinking of marrying and see what you get, and where. Don't go there. Just go to a place where your income will suffice to buy a home. The logic here being if you divorce in an area where your individual salaries could each buy a single home the divorce will be significantly less acrimonious for a whole host of reasons (there appears to be a large number of divorced people in teaching)

4. Check www.educationposts.ie for jobs. You'll notice that, naturally enough, the jobs are where the population is. Follow that to its logical "supply and demand" conclusion: where the population is, the jobs are and... the house prices are higher. Now, see what sort of home you'll get in one of those areas.

5. Don't go into teaching because you love your subjects. Your timetable will be controlled by somebody else, namely the principal (at least). You could very well find that you are teaching a subject or classes that you don't really want to teach and, if you're one of those hardy romantic souls who does things like university courses and career decisions out of following your heart, this will cause untold pain and great reflection when you realise you don't control what subjects and classes you teach.

6. If you go into teaching you will find that you will get to a certain point and there's nowhere else to go except school management (yes, there are a small number of DoES, SEC posts and so forth, but...). So, despite your love for your subject and for teaching you will be compelled to get into management because the money is better and... you don't want somebody else telling you what to do, deciding your timetable, etc. School management can be a very ugly place with a principal only getting a proportion of the holidays teachers get. I've seen principals publicly humiliated and they still have to get up the next day, and all the days after, to face everybody.

7. Don't go into teaching for the holidays. You're paying for them, as you'll realise when people who chose other professions after doing the same degree as you are earning significantly more than you in the additional 3.5 months they have to work (second-level teachers get 4.5 months holidays per year but many if not most of us work other jobs in that time, which also defeats the purpose of going into teaching for the holidays).

8. I'd be inclined to spend the time and money not on the two-year teaching qualification but rather getting qualified to enter a more protected profession like law (FE1 exams) or accountancy (ACCA exams), and specialising in some area of that. There are a large number of incompetents in both of those protected professions, so there's plenty of space for a good one. If you ever have to pay fees to either of these professions you will realise the pittance you are on for all the hours you spend correcting, etc during school time.

9. If you have a permanent teaching job waiting for you in Kerry, Donegal, Mayo or some such place where your single income could buy a nice (Mica-free) home, teaching can be a great profession, a privilege and a deeply rewarding career if you're in one of those schools where you know you're making a difference to lives and family histories.

Maestro23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476882#Comment_121476882

Thanks very much for that very in depth answer @gaiscioch I really appreciate it! I didn't consider some of those points so definitely food for thought!

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476882#Comment_121476882

Good answer...

I'd add, if you haven't gotten experience working with young people try get some as well...

Perhaps you could get a bit of subbing locally OP?

Could make your decision one way or thr other if you got a flavour of it in a couple of schools

jayo76

Going to be totally honest here. I love the job, well I have loved the job but I have said to anybody that asks me lately that if I was back in time again and in my last year of my arts degree and choosing what to do that sadly I would be choosing a different postgrad than the HDIP/PME route I went.

Im 25 years teaching, have spent 20 of them in the same school, a good middle of the road school with pupils that are generally well behaved. For 10 of those years we had a principal that was a disaster, made life a misery for teachers, students, parents everybody. The last few years we have a new principal, brilliant to work for, fair, even handed and ready to engage with everybody, a breath of fresh air but so many schools are still stuck under terrible leadership.

Sorry for sidetracking, even through that period of mismanagement I loved the job, I never let that management impinge on the classroom and the fantastic day to day interaction I had with students. However that has changed, not our principals fault as I say above but for me teaching in this country if you want to do it well has become impossible as I still do.

It has become a low trust, cover your ass job as a result of the terrible policies implemented by the people who control education at Dept level in this country. I love my subjects, I go in every single day to educate the students I have in a caring, supportive way and to bring the best out of them but I dont and never will follow the script expected by the Dept and Inspectorate of teachers today. They want all teachers to teach like robots, learning intentions, exit strategies, peer work, SSE. I would like to think I do all of these naturally, without thinking but the Inspectors and Dept want me to teach to a checklist and sod that. Teaching to me has always been and always be relational if students know you value them as a person and want the best for them they will go with you and enjoy your classes even if I dont write 5 intentions and 6 acronyms on the board every day.

It is also a much different world as a teacher than when I started in terms of student coping abilities, these days I do feel I can't challenge students in lots of cases to reach their potential. The focus on wellbeing as admirable and essential as it is has become so encompassing that it is all that matters in lots of cases now, we have students who's resiliance levels are through the floors and the wellbeing policy isnt helping them to understand that sometimes things are difficult. That might sound harsh but as I said earlier I genuinely love students and want the best for them.

All of the above sadly has changed my perceptions on the career. I love the job, I hope I have made a difference to young people, the day to day interactions are so rewarding but for the reasons above, along with the ever increasing paperwork and workload in every aspect of the job its not a career I would wholeheartedly recommend. Sorry for the rant, you will have many great days also if you go down that route and I wish you well.

Shoog

Getting your first teaching post can be challenging. They put you on a board and you have to go where they send you initially. If you are settled with commitments then this maybe a real issue.

wildwillow

jayo76 has painted a very real picture of teaching nowadays. I would not recommend it to anyone as a career.

dory

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477863#Comment_121477863

I've never been on. a board. Are you talking about primary? Or an ETB situation?

I taught for 10 years. On a career break now, unlikely (but unsure) if I'll go back. It can be a great job at times, but I like now that I can pick and choose when to take holidays, can go to the Canaries in January etc. And I finally got tired of my peers getting pay rises and bonuses and I getting 1% a year. And don't get me started on the new JC....

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478811#Comment_121478811

My daughter is training to be a German teacher at secondary level. She tells me that the first position will be allocated by the education authority and she has very little choice where she goes beyond picking a region. She doesn't drive so this is a concern for her.

Maestro23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477835#Comment_121477835

Thanks very much @jayo76 , really appreciate the detailed response!

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477835#Comment_121477835

Agree 100%

mtoutlemonde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121479478#Comment_121479478

OP if you think you want anx would like to be a teacher - go for it! You're still young. There were people far older than you doing the pgde when I did mine. It is a great rewarding job if you are in a school with good management. Best of luck.

@shoog - I never heard of this before - is she studying in ROI? I'm assuming UK.

Shoog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121480500#Comment_121480500

In Ireland.

HazeDoll

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121479478#Comment_121479478

I never heard of this either. I wonder is there some confusion here with some sort of subbing arrangement?

OP, I've been teaching for... a while.

I used to love it and it pains me to say it but I've become one of the unhappy ones. So much has changed and the job just gets a little harder every year. I look ahead at the future sometimes and it fills me with dread.

I wouldn't advise anybody I like to go into it as a career. There are good days, mediocre weeks and some very bad years.

Dunford

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121476882#Comment_121476882

wow. good post.

mtoutlemonde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121480643#Comment_121480643

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121480643#Comment_121480643

Yeah like the poster after me, I would think there is some confusion here. The teaching colleges let you off and wish you well at the end of your studies. When I started many years ago, in September, the Director said that there were loads of jobs in education and the same person wished well in May saying 'it's a tough career to get into' and off we went.

iniscealtra

@Shong I have never heard of this before. In Ireland you apply to jobs advertised on educationposts.ie. Public transport is improving but if I was in your daughters situation i would learn how to drive. It’s an important life skill.

kerryteacher2023

I've been teaching for 11 years post primary and still not permanent/no CID.Different schools every year covering maternity leaves,sick leaves etc.Spend every summer stressed and applying for jobs for September.It's so disheartening.I have a 1.1. degree,work extremely hard...it's very tough mentally & emotionally still not having a permanent position.I'm at a point now thinking should I do something else even though I absolutely love teaching.It's the uncertainty,the lack of security,standing on your head in every school every year giving your all for dead ends.4 hour,5 hour contracts.It's very hard.I hope it's better for you but I'm science too.I have many friends in the same position as me,some are teaching even longer.

Duplotastic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477835#Comment_121477835

I could have written this post. I love my subject, I love the kids, I love the classroom, but after 24 years I feel like the Dept of Ed and Management are determined to batter me into the ground on an emotional level. That side is relentless. But when the classroom door is closed and all that is on the outside, it is still a job that gives me greatly satisfaction.

Treppen

Check out science courses for industry on springboard if it's still running.