Oh Deer, what can the matter be

Calahonda52

Deer culling will go ahead due to growing population - McConalogue

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2023/1207/1420607-deer-culling/

[MOD SNIP - COPYRIGHT]

What took 14 months?

Then looking at the other plans and time lines, it will be 2025 before anything concrete will be done.

TheEngineer1

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/d2e75-report-of-the-deer-management-strategy-group/

Interesting that the report advocates for the use of thermal and night vision scopes for culling deer at night, in direct conflict with the FEC recommendations to ban and restrict them respectively.

Disappointing that there is no call to end the bidding system for sporting rights on state forestry land.

On the other hand it looks like there will be an attempt made to put together some kind of landowner/hunter forum to facilitate controlling of deer. Could hopefully make it easier for for acquiring permissions.

kunekunesika

Seems to be a lot more paperwork/management plans expected in the future. Can't see that resulting more deer being shot??

They want all hunters trained up in the next 3 to 5 years.... They don't say what we're to be trained in?

The talk of allowing us supply more than 3 animals to local users???? I thought I could only supply to game dealer in the fur?

Doesn't seem to be a hatchet job on us. There are some very reasonable recommendations that would help. But plenty that I can never see happening.

My feeling was that they see us as valuable contributors to solving the problem, which has to be good.

I liked their note to the FAC, don't do anything stupid that will impede deer stalkers.

I'll read it again tomorrow and probably change my mind🤣

Rescueme0007

It's all sooooo, slow and time consuming. Another generation of calves and fawns will increase the biomass next year. These recommendations (if fully implemented) will only take effect at (potentially) the commencement of next season. How terribly efficient and effective!😫

Grizzly 45

The talk of allowing us to supply more than 3 animals to local users???? I thought I could only supply to game dealer in the fur?

That was changed in the updated food hygiene legislation from the Food Safety Authority in its latest version to comply with EU law on supplying game into the food chain in small amounts.

Got rid of vague terminology of "some" or "limited amounts".They now define numbers that can be sold, still in the fur mind, to restaurants,etc.

4.2 Hunter Exemption for the Supply of Small Quantities of Primary Products

European food law makes provision for the scenario where small quantities of wild game primary products, e.g. in the fur or in the feather eviscerated, or non-eviscerated wild game bodies, may be supplied by the hunter either directly to the final consumer or to local retail establishments, e.g. a retail butcher or restaurant who directly supply the final consumer.

A hunter supplying in such a manner is exempt from Regulation (EC) No 852/2004 which sets general hygiene rules applying to all food businesses; and Regulation (EC) No 853/2004 which sets additional hygiene rules applying to businesses producing food of animal origin but must comply with the requirements of Regulation (EC) No 178/2002 such as the obligation to produce safe food and have a traceability system in place. 

Small quantities are established under Irish Law (S.I. 22of 2020) as follows:

• No more than one large wild game or no more than three small wild game can be supplied in a week, with a maximum of three large wild game or thirty small wild game supplied in a year, and

• The wild game is supplied only to final consumers, or to retail establishments that supply the final consumer, located no more than 100 kilometres from where the wild game was hunted.

It is important to note that a hunter invoking this exemption but also supplying game meat other than the primary product would have to comply with, at a very minimum, the requirements of Regulation (EC) No 852/2004 involving among other things: registration, general hygiene requirements, including appropriate storage and would be required to have a food safety management system in place.

FOOD SAFETY AUTHORITY OF IRELAND

Guidance on Hunting and Processing of Wild Game for Human Consumption PAGE 5

4.3 Hunter Exemption for the Supply of Small Quantities of Wild Game Meat European food law also makes provision for the scenario where small quantities of wild game meat are supplied direct by the hunter, i.e. the primary producer, who hunted the wild game to the final consumer or to local retail establishments directly supplying the final consumer. NOTE This exemption differs from that outlined in Section 4.2 The Hunter (primary producer) Exemption, in that this exemption (relating to small quantities of wild game meat) deals with the scenario where the hunter is supplying small quantities of wild game meat, rather than supplying small quantities of hunted ‘in-fur’ or ‘infeather’ eviscerated or non-eviscerated wild game bodies. Under Irish Law (S.I. No. 22 of 2020) the supply of wild game meat is restricted as follows; • The supply must be to the final consumer or retail establishments that supply the final consumer located no more than 100 kilometres from where the wild game was hunted • The supply is limited to the meat of no more than one large wild game or no more than three small wild game in a week • The supply is limited to the meat of no more than three large wild game or thirty small wild game in a year

kunekunesika

Thanks for that Grizzly, I didn't that. I completed the course a year before, the above was enacted. That gives me more scope than I thought.

Zxthinger

Who is going to be doing the culling.. And are numbers realistic. Don’t forget that these figure are related to the feed back from numbers on licence returns and not related to real surveys ..just more deck top surveys..

Call me skeptical but I just see them using this to allow industrial harvesting of these animals by profit driven organisations ..

They should have just allow local hunters to up the anti and shoot at night.

It will be like the seaweed rights they wanted to sell or the oil and gas rights that they gave away l for a bag of beans or the war ships sold for a 100k when they were worth millions.

Ffs they’re citing returned statements on the survey that they put out stating that culling is important but it who is doing the culling that’s more important.. Of course culling is important but thats if it’s done by us the hunters..

We are being hood winked here.

Grizzly 45

Call me sceptical but I just see them using this to allow the industrial harvesting of these animals by profit-driven organisations ...

They should have just allow local hunters to up the anti and shoot at night.

Mouthful said there alright.

The thing is; Can a local hunter actually fulfil this kind of cull ratio that they are probably going to demand? Who has time to take off from their jobs, family, etc to go and sit out in a forest for a week from Dusk to Dawn? This is what a local farmer or group will expect to be done.

Unless of course this would be effective, but requires some planning is do DRIVEN shoots in an area to do the cull in a day /two day period. That way you get more guns on the ground and it disperses the herds a lot quicker and it usually takes about 8 weeks for them to returnurn to a disturbed areas, hence everyone has a fair chance of getting a shot at any type of animal that comes their way.

Allowing us to shoot at night?Yeah while making it harder to acquire night vision or thermal that the muppets in the NPWS said this year requires Special Forces level of training to operate? Gimme a break.

Furze99

With this scheme to promote more culling, will there be mitigation measures to protect the safety of the public. Big increase during Covid in people using woods and still see them.

Zxthinger

How much time is wasted on day hunts.

ye can go for days in certain areas and the deer or only seen at night.

They never explored the options available via the existing hunting population rather they’ve made in roads to set themselves up regardless.

The profits outweigh the costs and someone’s about to get rich off deer meat.. or the extra trees grown or the hunting tours that such an endeavour might create.

On e the government get involved it goes south fast.. that true from Big Green to social welfare

Zxthinger

So what I meant to say is that I utilise days trying to harvest a deer with the day light hours.

I could make a night shot so much easier and in a lot less visits, at least until deer habits adapt and modify..

Anyway, O suspect that there will be more trouble with land permissions with this.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121484860#Comment_121484860

There is procedures in place for Coilte or forestry/lands that the public have access to. However, if the public chooses to ignore or defy the warnings, signage and being approached and told hunting is taking place as has happened in many cases out of bloody-mindedness or wanting to cause aggro. What can you do?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121486643#Comment_121486643

I dunno but I suspect that if a member of the public is killed/ injured by a deer hunter, there'll be a heap of trouble.

Grizzly 45

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121486950#Comment_121486950

Of course and rightly so.BUT if you do everything as required by Coilte or the law, put up warning notes on all gates that there is shooting going on, and people either ignore such or actually destroy or remove them deliberately or like most Irish upon seeing a warning sign act like a bull when he sees a red cape and get all Bolshie about being denied right of access to "their woods by deer killers"[for a day] and stomp off into the woods in a belligerent mind.it's going to be commented on at the trial or inquest as to why they decided to ignore warnings both written and verbal.

J.R.

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/news/news/culling-must-continue-but-in-planned-and-sustainable-way-deer-society-764051

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J.R.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/farming/arid-41288605.html

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Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121487808#Comment_121487808

Well yes if all those precautions are taken, that is all that can reasonably be done. I'm simply pointing out not only the increase in deer but the increase in public use of Coillte forests since Covid.

Worse are the lads who just park up and head in. I was walking the dog not long back and a shot rang out close by. A roar or two and this chap pops appears in camouflage and a big rifle. Says he I didn't think the public came in here. I've never seen him before and use the place often enough. Says I, lots of people walk here, do you want to kill someone?

Rescueme0007

After all the huffing and puffing at the end of November about measures to reduce the numbers of deer (specifically Sika), a complete silence!☹️ I spoke with the NPWS ranger for the area that I stalk recently, to enquire had he heard of an extension to the current licence period for 2024. He acknowledged that matters are being considered, but that nothing firm has been advised to him or his colleagues.

He did mention that S42 applications would be a possible alternative and that such applications were likely to be granted readily.

Has anyone heard anything further on the subject?

Birdnuts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121735545#Comment_121735545

The current Sec Gen who is over the NPWS has been there for over 15 years. In that time everything from National Parks to SAC's have gone to sh*te. Thats your problem right there ie. a fish rots from its head !!

Hunter456

applied for a section 42 as soon as the stags ended still waiting on it. They want them culled but made wait for a section.

alex90

Presumably that's because they want you culling hinds and does until the end of February.

Chiparus

Applied last year in March , only took a few days.

J.R.

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/watch-10-deer-management-units-to-be-set-up-over-coming-year/

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Perazzi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121484748#Comment_121484748

The biggest problem is lads are not culling the females deer I shoot a lot and I yet to meet a lad out where I shoot as often as I do but from Africa island today lads better get out and secure there land and talk to the farmers before Cashman takes over the place

tomtucker81

Can I just clarify, from reading the regulations you posted there Grizzly45, my understanding is it would be ok to give one deer a week to a local restaurant?

I have a friend who accompanies me sometimes out in the field, a head chef in a restaurant, but we never put anything into there, always for personal consumption.

So could he take one to the restaurant, especially if he's been on the hunt?

Grizzly 45

From reading those regulations on food saftey, that's what it looks like to my non legally qualified mind.So caveat emptor on this.