NCT Retest Fail -Brake pad on backwards

littlecbear

Hello

I had my car fail an NCT due to brake issue, it turned out to be a caliper which I had replaced. Today I went in for a retest and the guy failed me because he said the brake pad was fitted the wrong after the caliper fix, so he didn't do the brake test on the car. I asked what he meant exactly by wrong and he said the pad was put back on the wrong way around such that the metal is hitting the metal.

Rang the garage who said bring it in but no way did that happen because I would hear the metal noise while driving.

I'm bringing it back in and want to look myself at it, wondering if the garage is bluffing about it not being possible, amd what it would look like visually so that I can be informed at the garage.

Thanks in advance

bucketybuck

If you can take a wheel off then do that and see for yourself, or take a picture and post it. It would be easy enough to tell.

You may be able to see even with the wheel on, but we don't know the model.

littlecbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462301#Comment_121462301

Thanks for the reply. I should have said, it's a 2012 octavia. I will go have a look and see if I can get a decent pic without wheel removal.

GavPJ

If it has alloys with a decent gap in the spokes you should be able to see

the caliper and pad. Get a photo.

The garage is right, you would hear an awful loud metallic scrape if the pad

was in wrong way round. The garage would have heard this noise on test drive

after fitting the pads (if they done a test drive). I would be asking some serious

questions in the garage if the pads were put in ar$e ways. Make sure you are

beside the mechanic when he removes the wheel to look.

Can't see the NCT tester being wrong about the pad being fitted wrong.

Del2005

I've luckily never had a retest for brakes so don't know the process. But I've never seen the tester looking at the brakes until after they do the brake test during the normal test, is it different for retests?

The NCT should be taking pictures of fails and showing then to the customer at the counter so that it's easier for the repair or so the customer can quickly see that it's not an issue. The only potential data protection issue is with the reg plate and that is obvious. Garges are sending service videos to customers, there is no reason why the NCT can't record the test.

zg3409

Make sure you get a good photo or video before you let garage at it. If the garage mechanic put the part on the wrong way I would be looking for a full refund and never bringing car near that garage again.

I suspect NCT are correct unless something was lost in translation or explanation.

kdevitt

Its completely possible - had it happen to me on an E30 that underwent a resto. Resulted in a nicely scored brake disc - so I'd be checking theres no damage caused.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462595#Comment_121462595

It's not so much a data protection issue as a can of worms. It would open up huge complaints about who got pictures of what, and who didn't. It would add huge cost in terms of cameras for every NCT tester, and data storage requirements for large numbers of pictures, 99% of which would never be looked again. This is why we need more and more data centres.

littlecbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462750#Comment_121462750

Did you notice a grinding noise straight away?

I have been driving on it for a few days with no bother.

Sam Russell

If the calliper is seized, the backwards pad will not touch the disk - hence no scraping noise.

bop1977

brake pads installed correctly

kdevitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121463087#Comment_121463087

Nope - didn’t notice it at all. That said, the car was driving like crap and there were other more immediate issues!!

littlecbear

Here is the pad, it does look different to the others, others all have writing on them. I'm concerned by all the rust, discs are a year old, no rust on other discs. Could the pad have caused that?

[Steve]

That's impressive. They put the pad on backwards, NCT tester was correct. With how little material is left on that pad the garage you went to for the caliper should have replaced the pads.

Also, Rust is normal and to be expected but odd if it's only like this on one rotor.

10-10-20

Looks to me like there's only about 2mm of distance between that metal backing of the pad and disk anyway. If that's the right pad then it's hard to tell as most pads have a backing on them to prevent brake squeal, and that could be what we're seeing on the back of the pad. Any chance of a photo taken straight-on?

BrianD3

That's on backwards, NCT tester was correct and it looks to have scored the disc. You'll get rust on non contact surfaces of a disc but the colour of that rust (reddish) suggests to me that the disc has experienced serious heat i.e. from a sticking caliper.

littlecbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465343#Comment_121465343

Bringing it to a different garage later to look but according to them it is not possible to fit the pad backwards on this model.

sundodger5

That is in backwards.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465367#Comment_121465367

I would have thought that the pad was keyed with a larger/wider finger on one end than the other, but that last photo seems to say that you can! For flip-sake!

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465339#Comment_121465339

If the caliper was seized on that side it would explain rust on that disc but not its opposite without the seized caliper.

BrianD3

Utter morons. After an episode of caliper sticking and with clearly worn pads, pads should have been replaced along with the caliper. Posssibly discs as well. Instead they replaced the caliper and put the old pad in backwards. Now they're claiming that this isn't possible. Jesus wept. Show them this thread.

cpoh1

Its on backwards and worn to the bone. New pads should have been included in the caliper replacement. The wear would have been uneven across the rear axle due to the seized caliper and even at that rear pads are cheap as chips for an older ocatvia (30-50 quid).

thats bordering on negligent from the mechanic, you could easily have ended up with that popping out of the slider and losing all brake power.

littlecbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465416#Comment_121465416

Wow. The front and rear pads and rear discs were only replaced this time last year. And I do little mileage.

kdevitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465367#Comment_121465367

The opposite side most likely can't be fitted backwards as it has the prongs in place to hold it into the caliper - but quite obviously it is possible to fit the other pad backwards, as your photo evidences!

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465422#Comment_121465422

The seized caliper would have worn the pads out, they should have been replaced.

Get new pads now seeing as they have to open it back up.

Mech1

dont drive it!!! now that you know its dangerous your responsible.

get it recovered to a decent garage, get them to check and photograph everything and fully document all.

then get 1st garage to foot the bills.

[Steve]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465466#Comment_121465466

It's fine to drive for purposes of getting to a garage. Not much else though.

FWD vehicles have a brake bias typical 80/20. Having a loss of braking power on one rear wheel won't prevent the car stopping. Might affect ABS slightly as it's expecting a response that may not be there.

If this happened to one of the front brakes then yes - get that towed.

littlecbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465466#Comment_121465466

Dangerous due to the backwards pad or worn pad? Garage is reversing their error but I am going to go elsewhere to get the pad changed.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465648#Comment_121465648

Reversing their error? So your going to the first mechanic so they can put the brake pad back in the right way around, and then going to another mechanic to have the brake pads replaced?

You should be demanding €22.50 from them to cover your re test and also getting a discount on a new set of pads from them.

flatty

I'd get the first garage to do it if they've offered for free. They won't make that mistake again, and it would be a learning point perhaps.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466015#Comment_121466015

Depends who is doing it. The same dumbass apprentice who hadn't a clue the first time around? Or the owner doing it himself?

Hard to say without knowing the setup. One thing for sure, they aren't paying anything towards another garage rectifying the fault.

Atlantic Dawn

I've DIY changed brake pads maybe 5 times, I can see how you would put them in backwards but how someone with any level of competence could not then see their error right in front of them while doing simple visual safety checks on their own work as part of the job is beyond me. I'd have no faith in ever doing business with the place again.

Mech1

It might just be the angle of the photograph, but I wouldn't at 1st glance be 100% happy with the routing of the metal brake pipe in that recent picture either.

XsApollo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465422#Comment_121465422

Who replaced these? Is it the same mechanic?

post up a photo of the other rear pad also, so we can see what type of wear is on the pad?

flatty

Agree absolutely, but people should by and large be given a chance to learn from their mistakes. I always say to folk working for me that it's not necessarily a mistake I mind, it is repeating it.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466254#Comment_121466254

Mistakes such as that should be caught before it's out the door. That's why apprentices have their work checked as they would be expected to have less experience.

Plus, how was this not caught on a road-test? If it's a front brake then it should have shimmied on heavy braking, while it should have been a notable imbalance when the handbrake was pulled if it was on the rear...?

spiggotpaddy

"Howdie maam, I'm a fixing to do your brake pads'

That's shocking for a garage. I would take lots of pictures. They should, at the very least put new pads on and pay for the retest.

flatty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466296#Comment_121466296

If for instance my wife had all four brake pads on backwards I doubt she'd notice. The last time she said her car was "driving funny" her tyres, all four, had wire showing. The lad in the tyre place said they were the worst he had seen in 15 years.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121462776#Comment_121462776

There's no need to keep a passing test and with modern cameras they can easily tag the fail to be uploaded to a screen in the center or even better added as a still to the fail sheet so people know what to replace.

If dealers can email the full video of a service there is no reason why a government contractor can't show a picture.

littlecbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121465822#Comment_121465822

Yes I went back to get they to fix the mistake and I got a refund to cover costs of new NCT. I queried the condition of the pads and he said they are only half worn so should be fine for another 6 months or so. So I'm going to bring it elsewhere for any future work.

littlecbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466185#Comment_121466185

No different mechanic while I was away from home. The backwards pad was one of the rear ones. I have at least learned a bit on car parts from this experience. But it seems like a shockingly basic mistake to make as it is so obvious.

littlecbear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466296#Comment_121466296

It was a rear pad, I didn't notice a think and OH did a good but of driving in it over the weekend and didn't notice any issue.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121467424#Comment_121467424

The garage should have carried out the road-test, in case you thought I was aiming that at you.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121467254#Comment_121467254

Anything is possible, but it comes at a significant cost. Who's going to pay?

There may well be other benefits for the dealer in keeping the videos as part of the service history that help to justify these costs.

Whocare

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121466183#Comment_121466183

Was thinking the same

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121468418#Comment_121468418

The same person who pays for everything, tax payers. Cameras are cheap and there is already data terminals at all the testing stations so a USB cable with a bit of software to capture the images is all that is needed to implement. Nearly every other industry is using cameras as proof of work being done, it's about time the NCT caught up.

There's value for money customers of the NCT where they can go to a garage and say that this needs to be fixed. The OP is a perfect example, their garage is saying it's impossible to get fit a brake pad backwards yet the photo shows a brake pad in backwards. Now instead of the OP having to try to take that picture if they had posted a picture from the NCT they would have gotten an answer within minutes of posting. The same for goes for the vast majority of people who have no clue about cars and are afraid of being ripped off by garages. They go in with a picture of the failing item and the garage can then show a picture of the part fixed or replaced, the customer can even ask online what needs to be done to fix the fail and roughly how much labour is involved.

It would also remove the myth that the NCT is a money making scam, by showing the actual failure, and with random reviews of passing tests could weed out corruption

Mech1

Rats eat wires picture from today.

Mech1

Pictures tell a thousand words, customer now knows what happened and why.

Happy customer.