Neighbours Extension on mid terrace house

anewme

an elderly relative lives in a mid terrace house and their neighbour is building an extension. The extension does not need planning permission. (They are telling us) Today the builders went in my relatives back garden and wanted to remove the old boundary fence. (Old divider which came with house) My relative said no as they are unsure what the person is trying to do and how their house will be left and s now is panicking

they think the builders were saying that the new wall would be the boundary (which is on neighbours side?) but not sure

None of us are any use with building/ party walls:/boundary walls and would like to ask who we should get in touch with.?

the concern s that the person building the extension has already tried to take land off the elderly man behind and there was a big row, so we want to ensure all above board. There won’t be professional plans for the extension I don’t think.

mickdw

Get a construction professional on board and request that neighbour or their reps meet with your professional prior to any fence removal. They should be happy to run through plans to detail how it is to be constructed without encroaching on property.

Items to look out for would be foundation, eaves overhang, roof drainage, general drainage.

Your professional would also be able to give an opinion as to whether the plans are generally in line with Planning exemptions.

standardg60

Theoretically the fence should be able to be re-installed in the exact same position it was in, so the extension wall, eaves and gutters should be entirely within your neighbours side of this when completed.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121443361#Comment_121443361

Thanks a lot. They’ve already cut the gutter and that’s upsetting my relative but I think k they are just going to re direct it at the front of the extension when it’s finished. . The wall is half built and it’s definitely on the neighbours own side so it seems that they dont want to replace the actual divide.

what professional do we need to look at this. I’m no use at this stuff. Is it Costly? Relative is only on state oap and no savings.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121443592#Comment_121443592

Where are you based?

Ask them for a boundary section drawing.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121443407#Comment_121443407

Thanks! You might be onto something here. The wall they built is very close to the edge of the original boundary (this is the actual fence that came with the house some 55 years ago. While the wall of the extension is ti the right side if it now, if it had gutters etc, I’m not sure it would be. they said ti her, Do you not want a lovely new wall as the boundary?

They said they would put it back when she says no , but she does not trust that they will put it back in the exact same spot after what happened with the other neighbour behind them. . What does she do if they just try and cut the old fence.

Leg End Reject

I can't help with the legalities of it but make sure they don’t use your relative's garden to store equipment, rubbish etc during the work. They need to stay on the neighbour's property while doing the work.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121443668#Comment_121443668

Thanks a lot. I doubt very much if they have it or any actual plans, it seens a bit made up as they going along. Even if we did see it, I don’t think any of us would be any help.

Is it a surveyor we need to engage. Relative is thinking the worst, but I said don’t jump the gun.

is our relative entitled to say what finish they want in the boundary fence, or say they want the exact same as is there now)?

Dublin area.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121443694#Comment_121443694

They actually got into her garden and tried to cut the boundary fence thing today she went out and told them to stop. That’s when they says, do you not wa t a lovely new wall!? They’ve had not asked consent. and that’s why it’s all kicked off. The gardens are tiny, it’s an ex council property.

anewme

Thanks everyone for your advices; I’m useless at this type of stuff since appreciate the experts here.

Leg End Reject

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121443731#Comment_121443731

They've already tried to take advantage of another neighbour, some people just have really hard necks.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121443735#Comment_121443735

They are all ld people who moved in 50/60 years ago and in those days ppl just built what they want and no one said anything.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121443698#Comment_121443698

Who to get? Take your pick from architect, engineer, architectural technician, building surveyor or even a land surveyor. Personally I dont think an architect would be the first choice for this so maybe look at getting a technician or engineer or building surveyor. Im just assuming you're in Dublin so I cant recommend anyone but maybe if you PM'd Gumbo or DOCARCH they might be able to assist.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121443824#Comment_121443824

Thanks a lot.

10-10-20

Not legal advice but: If it gets to the point that she finds the builders in her garden without permission then its trespass, which is a civil matter but the guards can be involved. But if they forcefully made entry then it's a more serious matter and the guards have additional powers.

Tell her to keep gaps closed and permit zero access until the matter is agreed from both sides.

db

If your relative does allow them access make sure to get a copy of their insurance first.

Viscount Aggro

I would simply ask... Where in your planning permission does it state permission to build a boundary wall, or anything else about your property.

MrRigsby

They either have to step back their building or finish it with a straight up wall with lead valley behind it so there are no eaves or guttering to cross the fence line . The next thing they’ll want is to use your relatives garden to erect scaffolding etc which you are under no obligation to allow . I had this with a former neighbour who was a nightmare to live beside so I made his life hell and wouldn’t let him take down fences or any of his workers set foot in my garden . Wouldn’t have minded if he was half decent

anewme

Thanks everyone for your advices.

it’s an Elderly lady living alone.

The Extension is under the size for planning permission, however I’m not sure it leaves adequate space in the garden. I don’t think there’s any drawings, it’s just “ahh start here”

No problem with them building their extension. They knocked in originaliy to say there would be builders trucks etc at the front road. but never mentioned about about moving boundary fence or anything like that. My relative mentioned getting council out and they did not seem to like that.

i never even considered the insurance thing as they just got into her garden with no permission asked.

Thanks again everyone.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121444394#Comment_121444394

No planning required as per the OP.

Also, no planning required for boundary wall construction once you have mutual consent it’s enough. And also stick to the 2m height limit.

Gumbo

As already posted, get someone local to have a look and try agree a finish.

If both neighbors where to step back extensions (should they both build) then there’s a no man’s land in between that’s a haven for vermin and build up.

ideal situation is the first to build uses a parapet wall centered on the boundary line. They keep their roof drainage on their side and then the opposite can can build off that in the future if they wish.

No wasted space, no rat run gap.

stepped approach below. This leaves the extension on their land but raises questions for access in the future for maintenance and also, creates the no man’s land between.

The below would be a shared party wall. Maybe not as high as this example.

No wasted space and allows construction of an extension to the rear of the OP property in the future.

anewme

That’s brilliant, thanks so much @Gumbo

DOCARCH

When asked, I would always recommend Gumbo's No. 2 option.

See so many issues with the 'no mans land'/gaps between extensions!

A shared party wall, and (written) agreement to that effect, is the way to go.

kerryjack

Look they are going to build it with or with out her approval as they are entitled to do so, if they can't get acsess they will find away to do it and probably leave it very shabby on her side, ie Boundary walls not rendered, of course they should have been consultation with the neighbours but sometimes it's best to plough ahead and look for forgiveness later on.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447987#Comment_121447987

i suppose the reason there are laws are so people like the elderly don’t get exploited.

They are not entitled to do what they want, they can’t let the gutters overhang for example.

and getting into someone’s garden without their consent is trespass, as others have pointed out.

thanks for your contribution..

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447948#Comment_121447948

Aesthetically it's a no brainer too, rather than the eyesores some of them are.

I've always wondered about the legality of the flashing detail too, where it's lapped over the boundary wall, rather than being valleyed between extension and wall.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121447987#Comment_121447987

If you check the exemption regulations, you'll see there are requirements that prevent somebody doing whatever they like.