wife has no interest in sex or physicality - at all

Patches oHoulihan

We have sex probably once or maybe twice a month there is no specific time pattern to it. Its just random. Always in the dark, with her getting into the bed in total blackness and it follows the same process every time and never with her facing me or looking at me. If I don't instigate it nothing would ever happen and at this point I think shes just going along with it as she knows I want to do it. If it was her it just wouldn't happen. Its humiliating.

Dont think i have seen her naked in years. Cant remember the last time anyway. She hides from me, wont even stand in a bra in front of me if she is getting dressed. Always goes off behind a locked door. When I go to bed she stays down for 30 mins on her phone , enough time for me to be asleep so to speak.

There is nothing in the way of talk about sex or any thing like that she just shuts it down, even times when i'd make a remark during a day trying to instigate something its blanked and ignored. It wasnt always like this - maybe the last few years. She'd never dream of anything off the cuff, its just like it doesnt exist in her mind. Shes a good looking woman with a decent figure for her age and im ok too, not overweight or anything. Ive accepted that ive a higher sex drive and thats ok but im at the point that I feel like im living with a woman that has me in the friend zone. She wants to spend all of her time with me and tells me all the time she loves me and that I am an amazing husband and father but yet the physical part of the partnership is just non existent. Im not the type that wants to be unfaithful so how do I fix this. Bearing in mind talking to her about this isnt going to be easy she just wont let me do it.

ChickenDish

Welcome to married life. My sex life isnt much better tbh, I always initiate it otherwise it wouldnt happen. The not seeing her naked isnt a thing for me, she happily struts around naked in front of me. It wasnt always this way, thinks its sometime to do with going through the change. I'm quiet verbal about it, so she does make an effort for a bit before I have to remind her again.

I'll never totally be happy with the situation, but its not as bad as yours by far. Be vocal about your wants and desires otherwise she will continue on regardless and be oblivious to the whole situation.

Relationships are hard work and take imput from both parties to work.

getoutadodge

God what a nightmare. Take care !

YellowLead

You say it hasn’t always been like this, but was the sex ever really great? Or did you just go from banal/bad to worse? If so, did you expect things to be better with marriage? If somebody doesn’t match your sex drive at the beginning it would be very rare for them to change.

Intimacy is an important part of a relationship and you do need to talk to your wife - not just by saying you need to have more and better sex but saying that is is very impersonating to you and that you are unhappy because of the lack of it. If she tells you she loves you, she must be willing to listen. If she doesn’t listen, she either doesn’t love you in reality, or she has some kind of mental block. Somebody who loves you will at least be willing to discuss. And pick the right time - maybe in the morning when out for a stroll or something - not in the bed where she might feel pressure.

Is she entering menopause? This can cause dryness of the vagina and make penetration painful and indeed impossible. This in turn switches off sexual desire just as a sore stomach switches off appetite for food. This scenario is happily resolvable. Judicious systemic HRT (elegance Estradot & Utrogeston)+ vaginal estrogen (eg Vagisil pellets) + vaginal moisture supplement (eg Replens) + lube (any of the gels on sale) ahead of sex will start to resolve this. Even artificial lubrication of the vagina switches on sexual desire, so this regime of both induced and supplemented moisture will do the trick, but it may take a few weeks for the tissues to be restored so they can both stretch and rebound and create great pleasure for both of you.

It’s hugely common problem, caused by biology and not your wife’s lack of love and affection, similar to issues many men have with erectile dysfunction, prostate pain etc.

Getting yourself informed is first thing you need to do, then when you are familiar with the topic, broach it with your wife, and discuss how you would love her to enjoy your affection in a physical way. The first practical port of call then is the GP, or if she prefers The Well Woman Centre which specialises in this area

https://wellwomancentre.ie/

Normally things can improve in months, but if problems do not resolve then a psychiatrist specialising in sexual therapy can be consulted and most often, once there is good communication between the parties, there can be a very happy ending.

YellowLead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427759#Comment_121427759

This is excellent advice. The only thing it requires is willingness from the wife - so OP it comes down to whether or not she is willing to make the effort - but at least you are equipped with some possible factors there

afatbollix

I watched this recently, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krA8-_iXptE&ab_channel=TEDxTalks

And its so true, I can just look at my wife and be in the mood, It's pretty obvious that women are different. I do find it difficult as my wife is always saying shes not in the mood. That other things are taking over rather than thinking about sex. The thing is that sex is so important to a relationship, It's the difference between house mates and a relationship.

According to that Ted talk, Women don't allow themself to get to desire stage. Rather a peck on the lips than a real kiss then maybe they might get to the next stage. My wife talks about how much she enjoyed it after and we should do it more. It's a pain in the hole!

Best of luck OP, It's tough, It's no ones fault but trying to get her to talk about it is how you get through this. Find a way to bring it up be it a nice dinner out or a hotel night away but talk about it.

Sleepy

Sadly this seems to be all too common and I suspect if divorce wasn't so punitive, we'd see a lot more of it as a result.

marilynrr

 If I don't instigate it nothing would ever happen and at this point I think shes just going along with it as she knows I want to do it. If it was her it just wouldn't happen. Its humiliating.

I think it's highly likely that you're right, important to note that this will feel humiliating for her too in a different way. And while the more you do it the more you want it can be true for some people, it tends to be the opposite for others and if they're having sex they really don't want then it can lead to a sexual aversion.

This topic of conversation in relationships is often shut down. What way are you approaching the conversation? If she's put on the spot then she will be likely to shut it down because she panics.

If I were you I'd tell you you want to discuss the relationship, specifically the intimacy issues, but not now, set a date for a week or 2 from then because say you really need to have the conversation and you want her to really think about it. Tell her you'd like to know if she thinks that there is any realistic chance that things might change or does she think that this is it.. I'd also emphasise that if she thinks that there's a chance that things might change that you'd be really happy to take things very slow with baby steps so that you can both start to enjoy fulfilling mutual intimacy and that you're certainly not going to be expecting wild sex several times a week, just baby steps to enjoy each other and so I would ask her to think about all of that in advance of the chat about it in the next couple of weeks.

I'd try to make it a positive warm conversation, then drop it and even do something fun or nice together afterwards like take her for a meal, so that it looks like you're trying to problem solve (which you are).

It's possible that she might not know if things are going to improve so don't expect her to have all of the answers, and she might not feel able to be fully honest with you if she thinks the truth will hurt you and the relationship further, but hopefully you can start to have some kind of productive talk about it, if she's not willing to discuss it despite being given time and space to prepare for the discussion and not being put on the spot with you expecting immediate answers then I would be extremely concerned because it doesn't bode well for your future.

I definitely wouldn't bring up the conversation at dinners or a nice hotel etc like someone else advised because that's the approach a lot of people take and that often seems to end up leading to the person wanting to avoid date night in case they have another talk about sex. It's a positive sign at least that your wife still loves to spend time with you and compliments you as a husband and father so there is definitely some hope for you.

If she's menopausal then it's possible she might not want HRT so it's not necessarily as easy a fix as mentioned above. I'm not sure of all of the reasons why women refuse it because I'm not at that age so haven't needed to research it but I believe increased risk of cancer is one reason why some women won't go on HRT.

thatshowthelightgetsin

It really is only the punitiveness of our profoundly inhumane divorce process in Ireland which is keeping you in this deeply humiliating, lonely, isolating, undignified place, OP. What you're going through - denial of your basic needs for connection, affection, intimacy, closeness - is trauma in the truest meaning of that much-studied concept.

Sex and that whole world of intimacy should be part of any healthy, loving, intimate relationship. It's about connection, about closeness, about so many of the ineffable little kindnesses two loving people share. Your home should be a place of acceptance, of togetherness - yet with her not even dressing/undressing in front of you, and "hiding" from you speaks like somebody who has, at best, some form of avoidant attachment style with all its walls/stonewalling/silent treatment/control. That is a hugely damaging place for any human being to live in a relationship. You will feel so small, so reduced, so lost for all the years you allow this treatment to continue.

Your wife knows this intimate connection with her is vitally important to you, yet she doesn't have the basic love and empathy for you, your life, your story and your feelings to work on this issue. At the very, very least you deserve the respect of honest communication and a serious effort to come to an arrangement where both of you can be happy. This cac about "menopause" is just that: no matter what "pause" somebody is going through it does not give them the right to treat somebody who is meant to be the closest person to them like dirt. Far too many excuses for abuse when the abuser is female. Going around the house like a bull, blaming it on the menopause and refusing to talk and explain needs to be called out as the abusive behaviour which it 100% is. Communicate. Talk. Respect. If you were to ignore an issue of similar importance for her and stonewall all her emotional requirements you can bet it would be seen as the emotional abuse that it is. Instead of hugs and affection, give her indifference in bucketloads. 'The opposite of love is not hate but indifference.'

If it continues, you will realise you cannot keep making excuses for her. It will take immense courage - and, after all, many marriages are mere legal entities which only survive on fear from the man of the financial consequences of divorce and from the woman of the loss of social status from divorcing - to find yourself after these years of being emotionally abandoned. A person can only take so much degradation and humiliation before the light comes on and once it does, it's hard to turn it off.

The slightest bit of hope on your part that you can, in reality, be happier outside your current marriage will have a domino effect on your life. Once you find that courage, you will find you're being more courageous in all areas of your life. After all, if you can survive the divorce process in Irish family law courts, you will be willing to assert yourself anywhere. Start seeing divorce as opportunity - to live again, to do justice to your basic emotional needs, to respect yourself again - rather than loss and you will become a very different, stronger and, dare I say, a better man.

Some tips:

Start keeping a daily diary. It's a great therapy, and a record of patterns of abuse.

Get solid up-to-date family law specialist advice on divorce. If you have no children, it won't be as bad as you think. Essentially you'll be paying tens of thousands of euro in legal fees to get out of the legal contract that is divorce. You can make this money back, and start again a freer man.

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Warning applied for breach of charter. You have been asked many times to stop with soap boxing in PI. Without any basis you've labeled the OPs wife an abuser and labeled menopause as cac! Which is not in anyway helpful to the OP.

JDD

I think I can give a little insight into your wife's mindset, given I am in sort of a similar situation.

Firstly, I should say, don't compare yourself to what you think would be the norm for your age. I assume you are in your forties, and have children? I have had honest conversations with friends - some have sex once or twice a week, one has sex maybe four times a year, and twice a month seems to be about average for our age group.

I have seen a huge change in my sex drive from my early thirties to early forties. I always liked sex, and absolutely could not understand this trope of a wife sighing and "giving in" on special occasions, like it was just another chore. I swore I'd never become that person. I remember my brain wandering towards sex when I was at work, or on the bus, or whatever, if I didn't have sex for a few days.

Then I had my first child. I was completely shocked at how my sex drive just switched off, overnight. I do think that it's actually something primal that kicks in - no sex drive means less sex, which means less chance of getting pregnant again while your body is recovering from the last birth. Obvs we didn't have sex for the first few weeks as it would have been very very painful, but once my body physically recovered I still found that my brain/hormones hadn't caught up. So I still had sex with my husband, every 10 days or so, because I knew he wanted it. Unfortunately it seems that that period sort of rewired how I perceived sex after that point. I was absolutely shattered, all the time, because of lack of sleep. Sex was a chore, just another thing on my list of things to do to keep everyone in my household happy. It was eight or nine months before my hormones caught up and I actually wanted to have sex again. But even when I did, it didn't feel like the joint thing it used to be.

In hindsight, before children, we rarely had sex at night time (unless we had a few drinks, which in fairness was pretty regular). We'd have it in the morning, or during the day at the weekend, when we were well rested. Now, we had timeslot which was just at the point of the day, after the kids were in bed and had finally fallen asleep, which was exactly the point I was about to fall over. The only times that we had sex more regularly was when we were trying for another kid. Again, that made sex feel like a job - a task to complete in order to get the outcome we wanted, rather than something you'd do on its own merits.

I also feel a bit for your wife on the undressing front. Maybe she looks exactly the same as when you first met her, but I doubt it. The change can be crippling. It doesn't really matter how many times you might say "I still think you look beautiful" because she doesn't see herself through your eyes, she sees herself through society's eyes. And if she is disgusted by the changes, she's going to hide them. That explains the sex in the dark thing too.

So what can you do? It's a really tough one, because so many people go through this and its not just about sex, its about so many other things. An aging body, chronic tiredness, not having enough headspace to allow sexual desire to even come in, etc. And that's without touching on the menopause, which I have no experience of yet.

I daresay you'd be happy enough with the twice a month frequency, if your wife instigated it, and was more enthusiastic? I know its not just about the sex itself, it's about feeling desired too. I mean, you'd still want it more, but you could live with that?

Myself and my husband have come to a somewhat happy arrangement. We have sex maybe once every 10 days/two weeks, but I instigate it and my husband leaves me alone otherwise. We been much more physically affectionate since then as I'm not thinking every hug during the day is going to be immediately be followed by "woo I might get lucky tonight!". Believe me when I say those comments have the absolute opposite effect of what you intend. Our unspoken rule is that we don't leave it for more than three weeks, and if it gets to that point I instigate it even if I don't really want to. So that's the compromise on both sides. We never addressed the situation directly, it just sort of worked out this way. It was helped by my losing some baby weight and getting some time outside the house on my own, which my husband made time sacrifices so that he could fully support that.

ElizaBennett

Fantastic post by JDD and I really like the idea of having some 'rules' that are agreed upon (in a fun, light-hearted way if possible) where you don't go more than 3 weeks and only she should initiate. That has worked for me in relationships too. My last partner always wanted sex with me so I could take that as a given every night. So, therefore, it made sense for me to initiate sex as I knew I wouldn't be turned down. It meant he never had to feel rejected as I didn't have to refuse. I think you need to do as one poster suggested and ask to talk about it in a few days' time at a designated time and then suggest a solution like JDD's. Good luck. If you love each other it's well worth trying to find a solution.

Manic Moran

My wife went to a hormone therapist, turned out in her age she was becoming deficient in certain things and ended up with a testosterone pellet installed. She feels utterly rejuvenated: Wakes up in the morning with some energy, seems to be losing weight and has rediscovered some of her sex drive. Says she plans on being on it for life now...

Declan05

There was a big thread entitled "Poor Sex Life in a Marriage" in the Irish sub on Reddit recently (see link below). There was some good advice given.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/189r1j7/poor_sex_life_in_a_marriage/

shesty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121441477#Comment_121441477

Fantastic post JDD.

I'm a mum, 3 primary age kids and you have put in words a lot of what I feel far more often than I would like to admit. As a woman, it is actually a horribly confusing and upsetting place to find yourself in too, but you often only hear the "my partner won't have sex with me" side of it, and rarely the other side of it.

TheadoreT

Tbf if husbands are saying things like "woo I might get lucky tonight" it's no wonder you lose attraction for them, it's not kids or tiredness, that sort of pedastalisation will ruin any spark in relationships. The reality is most men bring their celibacy(or once a month pity sex) upon themselves with such needy and desperate behaviours.

@OP i get the feeling that despite saying she doesn't want to communicate this issue, you're also trying to avoid the truth. If you tackled this head on you'd get the answers, but I think the potential for hurtful realities is holding you back a little.

You need to risk and be open to completely lose the relationship for this to ever improve. The way you describe your bi monthly encounters sounds very grim. She's clearly very uncomfortable at the minute. You shouldn't be having sex with someone who doesn't want it. That's only going to push her further from actually ever being enthusiastic about it again. Take sex completely off the table until she's at least meeting you halfway.

Do you still date her? Many men take their wives for granted and make all sorts of excuses for not finding time to spend quality time alone outside the house. She'll be far more comfortable opening up to you if relaxed and doing something fun.

And if all efforts fail don't rule out moving on out of some sort of dated idea of it's better for the family. You being happy and displaying a loving relationship is far more important to your kids development than being miserable with their mother. Having standards alone is attractive as opposed to playing the loyal martyr

Sleepy

[QUOTE]And if all efforts fail don't rule out moving on out of some sort of dated idea of it's better for the family. You being happy and displaying a loving relationship is far more important to your kids development than being miserable with their mother.[/QUOTE]

Sadly, I fear this view is one taken from a rather privileged position. Divorce / Separation is financially ruinous for many and with the special legal status placed on the family home (not to mention the inherent sexism of the Irish Family Court System) unless you're in the financial position where you can afford to run two homes, there's no prospect of "having standards alone" for many, if not most, men caught in these dead marriages.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121500047#Comment_121500047

I know a certain poster who will no doubt be in here to cry foul soon enough. How dare anyone suggest such a thing about Ireland's Family Courts?

As for the OP I dont have direct experience of this yet and I hope I never do but who knows.

Something that really helped all round for us was arranging a "girls night" in the home. I went to stay with my parents and took our son. Made a sleepover out of it. Was also good to spend some extra time with my parents. My wife was like a new woman and noticeably more appreciative and affectionate. My mother actually suggested the idea. She said it's very important as she organizes similar nights herself every few months.

TheadoreT

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121500047#Comment_121500047

It's not made from any position. I wouldn't let my relationship slip that far in the first place.

I doubt anyone facing the prospect of divorce is privileged, but financial ruin is better than a life of emotional and mental ruin, and passing that onto your kids too.

As if 'how do I get my wife who is no longer into me to have sex' isn't a grim enough proposition, the 'how do I get my wife who I'd prefer to divorce but the courts are anti men to have sex with me' is beyond bleak.

jj880

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121502068#Comment_121502068

I think your last sentence there is a bit unfair. Anyone can use extreme language to go overboard. E.g. I could say you're suggesting at the first sign of any trouble just bail out of your marriage. Dont even bother trying to fix it before you end up in a worse situation.

For me a massive part of marriage is the physical side but that goes hand in glove with the emotional side. In my opinion you need both for it to work but to try to boil it down to "how do I get my wife to have sex with me instead of divorcing her" is not a true representation of whats going on here.

Dial Hard

Divorce absolutely doesn't have to lead to financial ruin. Both my partner and I can attest to that. But it does very much depend on the personalities involved, reasons for the split and willingness of both parties to be reasonable.

But tbh, I'd suggest all talk of divorce is a bit by-the-by for the OP at present, he clearly wants to fix his marriage. I would suggest a letter to his wife, outlining pretty much what he's said to us above, is in order. It's often far easier to articulate these feelings in writing than in conversation. It should include a request for a commitment from her to explore this with him with the help of a professional.

If she refuses to engage/even begin to discuss it again, then I think the OP has a potentially difficult decision to make.

Best of luck .

Idbatterim

Google Burning desire, thats lacking or its medical. Hard to give more info without knowing approximate ages, do you have kids etc ..