Maintenance - Should I have done this?

DeanAustin

So got divorced a few years ago. Agreed a maintenance amount, have set up a standing order and never, ever wanted to touch it. There is also a clause in the divorce agreement that any vouched expenses paid by one party must be reimbursed within a couple of weeks.

Anyway, kids Christmas presents came up a couple of months ago. One of the presents is something you've to get in advance and is quite expensive. She said "I don't have the money, you'll have to pay and I'll pay you when I get paid". Wasn't happy about it given she'd just come back from one foreign trip and was about to book another but to save an argument, I just bought it and sent the receipt. Her pay day came and went with no money coming my way. I asked her for the money a second time, she said she'd send it to me. Week later, no payment. Asked again, no response. All of this is documented as it was by text.

I understand the right thing to do was probably go to my solicitor but I don't want to be going back to court or incurring legal fees whenever this happens and I don't want to waste my time getting caught up with solicitors. So I deducted the money from this month's maintenance.

I guess there are two questions - morally am I right or wrong? It feels wrong to deduct from maintenance but I didn't want to be stubborn, not buy the present and have my kid suffer and I also don't want the hassle of solicitors to get my money back. Second question, legally, where do I stand as she's threatening to take me to court.

Oscar_Madison

Getting it sorted between you both is the best thing - get agreement from her around repayment plan of what she owes you - if you’re satisfied with that consider repaying outstanding maintenance amount - none of this is legal advice BTW but I imagine you’d want to avoid court as I also imagine unpaid maintenance is likely quite a sticking point.

your key issue is that she isn’t paying back for an agreed item and cost - don’t start making it worse by withholding maintenance- you may have to let this go but next time a big item is required she’ll have to pay herself -

DeanAustin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121423161#Comment_121423161

Thanks buddy. Good advice. I've written to her and said if she can give me a reasonable proposal, I'll pay the balance. Unfortunately, the response still hasn't been great but let's see where it goes.

Your advice was probably what the common sense voice inside of me said. The loud reactive voice said "f**k her, don't take this nonsense and just deduct". For anyone going through divorce, it's extremely difficult to ignore that voice but it is destructive.

feelings

maintenance for the kids is court agreed/ordered? vouched expenses for the kids (?) and also court agreed/ordered?

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121423319#Comment_121423319

Treat yourself to a coffee and a sticky bun and enjoy that moment - I’ve no doubt there will be other things to test you too - try not let the anger surface as action - it will wear you out- repay the maintenance owed- doing so unconditionally might get her to see sense though it’s doubtful but you’ll feel a whole lot better for it and it will look better in any future legal dealings.

Lesson learned is you can’t trust her on her word- fool me once and all that - put it behind you- whatever the expense was you’ll likely claw it back in other ways over time.

Also - try and have a good Christmas- do something nice for yourself - important to keep positive and don’t let the anger eat you up - there’ll be nothing of you left 😀

(Sometimes you have to laugh - hope you did)

DeanAustin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121423341#Comment_121423341

Yep, everything is in the court agreement.

Dial Hard

I know you don't want to go back to court, but I'd be inclined to let her take you there. She's as in breach of the terms of the maintenance order as you are, she may well have her cough severely softened for her.

thefa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121423319#Comment_121423319

I actually think your action was quite reasonable, assuming you were civil in the communication. Allowing her to be selective in the implementation of the court agreements is a bad precedent.

Is there any circumstances she can reasonably claim made the repayment impossible? The fact that she’s prioritizing new holiday scheduling ahead of a court agreement and right after another holiday sounds like she’s taking the mick.

Mellor

She said "I don't have the money, you'll have to pay and I'll pay you when I get paid". 

It may have made more sense after she said that to say. "Ok. I'll pay in full and deduct the amount from the month's maintainance to save you having to repay me." She'd have to agree and then it avoid the argument.

This may be a silly question, but I have to ask. I assume you didn't deduct the full cost of the present from maintenance?

Alonzo Mosley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121424245#Comment_121424245

100% agree. I'd call her bluff. People think that men get a raw deal in court but if the facts are in your favour judges can be quite sympathetic.....

This is it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427231#Comment_121427231

From my own experience, this is the case.

With regards to maintenance, mine isn't court ordered but I'd never change it or deduct anything from it. I understand it's a pain to go back to court, and this can cause friction in the relationship, but you breaking a court order because she's breaking a court order isn't ideal in my opinion.

I'd have asked a few times and if I didn't get anywhere I'd mention the court order and that you don't want solicitors involved etc. and then if it comes to it, do get a solicitor involved. It will cost you now but judges don't take kindly to either party breaking the order, and hopefully that'd be enough to put her off doing it again.

darragh o meara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121427231#Comment_121427231

Having been through the mill recently, I wouldn't bet on it...

In regards to the original question, you probably should have done as suggested above and sent a message to say you could deduct it from this months maintenance to save her having to send it back to you. At least you would have a paper trail, unfortunately now its your word against hers if she decides to go to court.

DeanAustin

Just to answer some of the questions above. No, I didn’t deduct the full amount of the present. I deducted half the cost (and rounded down by a couple of euro rather than going for exact amounts).

 

She is taking the mick because she’s done this before and I’ve let it slide. Yesterday she said “you know I’m good for it, money’s tight right now” so she sees the payments for this stuff as “ah sure, I can pay any time”. Also, in terms of income, I’m on a good wage but when you factor in maintenance and children’s allowance, she takes in roughly the same amount as me per month and she has the kids for 4 days a month more than me. So it’s not like she’s on minimum wage or has to give up work to look after the kids. Her lifestyle, like mine, is pretty good with a lot of room to cut expenses if that was needed.

Ezeoul

Techncially speaking, you can't amend the amount of court ordered maintenance without a variation order.

(Well, you can, but you'd be in breach of the maintenance order.)

There is also a clause in the divorce agreement that any vouched expenses paid by one party must be reimbursed within a couple of weeks.

How many weeks is "a couple" of weeks? 2, 4, 6? Is it specified in the maintenance order?

If not, how many weeks did you give her to pay?

This is what happens when anything in a court order is left purposely vague.

Repay any deduction of maintenance you made, and continue to follow up with her for reimbursement of extra expenses.

If it went to court, as it stands now I don't think it would go in your favour because you did breach the order, and she hasn't denied she owes you the money, just that she doesn't have it to repay you at the moment.

DeanAustin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121428832#Comment_121428832

It explicitly says 2 weeks and at the time I’d deducted, it had been 6 weeks with 3 broken promises of payment.

I offered to repay the balance of maintenance if she could give me a reasonable payment plan. She said “well you’ve deducted now so just leave it.” She’s also just paid other recently incurred expenses early so looks like the situation has resolved itself.

Thanks everyone for your input. Will probably consider my options a little more carefully if it happens again.

miamee

I'd suggest in future that if you don't both have your half of the cost of whatever it is, then you can't afford it. E.g. your co-parent should not have been borrowing her half of the money for the gift from you or should have waited until she had it to buy the gift. I have no doubt that the money would have been found from somewhere if you couldn't afford the full cost. It also would avoid dipping into maintenance payments which could potentially reflect poorly on you.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121429028#Comment_121429028

Fair enough. If it specifies two weeks, then she is in breach as well.

It still doesn't mean you should have deducted the money from maintenance, though I can understand why you would.