New speed limits

pgj2015

Does anyone know what's going on here?

Was watching the debate last night on rte about it.

It's all very vague from what I have heard so far.

Urban speed limits to be reduced to 30 kmph that's OK but are all regional roads going to drop from 80kmph to 60kmph? Or is it just those narrow roads that you can't really do 80kmph on anyway?

loyatemu

AFAIK it's the "defaults" that are being reduced, councils will still have the option of setting a higher limit, but will have to justify it using set criteria. Currently the default on every single carriageway road is 80km/h, which for many of them is ridiculous.,

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395273#Comment_121395273

Yeah I know there are many roads where 80kmph is too high but if they change all rural roads regional and national secondary roads to 60kmph it will be a joke.

Alun

From what I understand regional roads, i.e. 'R' roads, will continue to be 80 km/h, and "rural" roads, which I presume to be 'L' roads will be 60 km/h. Also talk of "secondary" national roads becoming 80 km/h, but not sure exactly what defines a "secondary" national road to be honest.

Like you say, it's rare you can safely do much more than 60km/h on these anyway, and the ones who try have close to zero chance of being caught. Not many places to park a GoSafe van on boreens with grass growing up the middle.

pgj2015

Stupid idea either way, what they should do is issue €500 fines for dangerous driving and ramp up enforcement.

Maybe allow people submit dash cam footage to prosecut dangerous drivers.

pgj2015

How do they think that is going to reduce deaths on the roads? None of the deaths happened on L roads. Its such a stupid idea.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395294#Comment_121395294

A portal for footage from the public is being released next year

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395317#Comment_121395317

Physics

icdg

It’s actually quite simple to identify national secondary roads - they are N-roads with numbers N51 and higher.

I totally get the reasoning and the sentiment behind this move but reducing R-roads, some of which are bypassed N-roads which originally had a 100km/h limit, down to a 60 km/h limit will, unless there is enforcement on a better scale then currently, unfortunately be very likely to be widely flouted. Not all R-roads are created equal. There are many that are rural country roads but there are also dual carriageways with central barriers and hard shoulders. Under this proposal the Chapelizod bypass will have its speed limit reduced to 60 km/h, for example.

Really it should be the road type, not the classification, that sets the default, but I guess classification is the easy way to do it.

By the way the provision to increase the default in appropriate circumstances already exists (and has been there since metrification) and is rarely used.

pgj2015

That's the confusion I'm talking about another poster said regional roads will remain 80kmph but you think they will change some regional road speed limits to 60kmph?

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395440#Comment_121395440

These are default limits though - in cases such as chapelizod bypass the council can justify the limit being higher.

Good quality roads can justify higher limits, narrow windy boreens or urban streets likely will not justify higher than default limits.

icdg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395583#Comment_121395583

They can. The point is that they will choose by design or inaction not to. This ability to vary the limit from the default has been there all the time since the old General Speed Limit of 60mph was abolished back in 2005 and only in rare instances have I seen it used.

Furze99

The problem with these proposals is they are a legislative response to a set of conditions that are mostly not possible to legislate for. They are an attempt to substitute driver experience, judgement and competence with more rigid rules to suit a set of objectives that an unelected body has set itself. When law is perceived as bad law by the public it is just ignored.

And that's what will happen. Sensible drivers will continue to drive on rural roads at speeds that suit each individual road and prevailing conditions. Reckless incompetent drivers will continue to take risks and be reckless.

Road deaths are a tragedy but I am quite sure that motoring is a lot safer now than when I first sat behind a wheel 40 years ago. Statistics were even worse before than in the 1950s & 60s. The idea of zero road deaths is nonsense, it's unachievable. Diminishing returns principles set in.

TomWade

I have just checked the Dun Laoghaire Website to see exactly what they are proposing. They have basically designated the entire administrative area as a special 30 km/h zone, and put in very limited exceptions. They have also totally ignored the option for a 40 km/h limit. This is a more recent option, used for example by Wicklow Co Council in Bray. This would be a more suitable default, but DLR want to get the opportunity to inflict maximum congestion on motorists. The 30 km/h is the most restrictive limit we have, and should be reserved for particularly sensitive roads (e.g. schools, hospitals etc). You want a driver to think when he sees a 30 "this must be a particularly sensitive road, and needs particular care". They won't think that if the 30 limit is spread too widely, leading to poorer compliance, and will ironically worsen road safety.

It won't let me post a link to web site, but if you go to www dot dlrcoco dot ie, and put "2024 speed limits" in the search bar, then click on "Public Consulation: dlr draft road special speed limit by laws 2024" you will see the map.

It has an option for feedback which I urge you all to provide. If you don't live (or commute) in DLR, I suggest you check out what your own local authority has planned for you.

Tom Wade

Victor

"Under this proposal the Chapelizod bypass will have its speed limit reduced to 60 km/h, for example." - no, because that speed limit was imposed by bye-laws, it will remain.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395289#Comment_121395289

National primary roads are those numbered N1-N50, although some sections are motorways. They connect the main cities, towns, ports and airports to each other.

National secondary roads are those numbered N51-N100. They connect towns to each other and/or act as tourist routes.

Victor

"They are an attempt to substitute driver experience, judgement and competence with more rigid rules to suit a set of objectives that an unelected body has set itself." - which unelected body are you referring to? The Dáil? The local council?

"They have basically designated the entire administrative area as a special 30 km/h zone, and put in very limited exceptions." No. Pretty much every main road (marked in a different colour on the map) **doesn't** have a 30 km/h speed limit. Very few places in the urban area are more than 500 metres from one of these main roads.

40 km/h speed limits might be useful in some awkward situations like tight motorway junctions, but are unsuitable for urban areas. Wicklow County Council got rid of their 40 km/h speed limits in Bray.

The map is here: https://dlrcocouncil.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=c922522ab9034471a0c7cad39ae1689e

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121395834#Comment_121395834

This. Responsible drivers will drive responsibly, which will be a different speed for different sections of road.

Irresponsible drivers may not do so, but such people will not be influenced by a debate in the Dáil or ads on TV, they will be only be influenced by enforcement and we all know that there is no intention of that.

All this carry on leads to the idea that speeding is exceeding the speed limit, and the corollary that the speed limit is an appropriate speed to drive at, when it may not be.

Victor

"If I drive down the Chapelizod bypass at 80 km/h I’m breaking the speed limit but I’m not speeding." - the speed limit on most of the Chapelizod bypass is 80 km/h.

Victor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121503842#Comment_121503842

It is 60 approaching the Palmerston Bypass at one end and Con Colbert Road at the other, to reduce the amount of queueing at the traffic lights. While yes, it is mostly a grade-separated dual carriageway, line of sight isn't great in places, especially in the bus lane, which can be used by cyclists. It is close to residential properties and other noise- and pollution-sensitive locations.

Those are good reasons for it to be 80 km/h and for people to respect that.