Law granting immunity to offenders under 16? Is this being exploited?

Sugar_Rush

After that horrific incident on Halloween night where a gang of youths attacked another random kid using a spiked baseball bat (nails planted in the end of it), leaving him with gruesome head injuries and fighting for his life;

Apparently the story goes following arrest of the offenders, they basically cumulatively scoffed and spat at the arresting officers.

Knowing they would be tried as youths and in practical terms, nothing would happen aside from an increase in their "street cred" for being "bad boys".

Media reveals they were released on 100 euro bond the very next day, and won't be due for appearance before the DPP prior to the second quarter of next year.

So let me break that down again:

1) feral youths perpetrated a gruesome armed attack against an unarmed, unsuspecting random other youth

2) other youth left in critical condition

3) offenders spit at the arresting officers and walk free the next day.

Is it redundant to comment that, current protocol does not serve as an effective deterrent against criminal and anti-social behaviour - and when it comes to youth justice, it may actually only serve to empower and incentivize them further?

.......

And let's be clear about one thing. This is a political/legislative matter, just as much as it is one of daily law enforcement (cause, as we know, community police work has come under the spotlight recently, for very good reason. But politicians and law makers for all their good-will and well-to-do rhetoric, are just as responsible for lack of adequate social management as are the Templemore graduates).

Witcher

Several issues here-

- First of all the law does not 'grant immunity' to under 16's

- There is no mention, anywhere, of anyone, related to this incident spitting on any member of AGS. Had it happened it would have been mentioned by the Gardai when they were brought before the courts. It wasn't.

- You don't 'appear before the DPP', you appear before the courts.

- They are due in court again the 18th January for directions from the DPP to be provided, that's not the 'second quarter of next year'.

As demonstrated in several threads now, your understanding of the justice system is tenuous at best.

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330452#Comment_121330452

You're splitting hairs.

The topic at hand being a heinous crime was committed for which the perpetrators are overwhelmingly likely to receive little more than the proverbial "slap on the wrist" (as illustrated, they're already back on the street, free, probably laughing at the incompetence of the justice system).

Cause why?

Because being under 16 Irish law regards them as minors, which they know, and know repercussions will be minimal no matter how grievous their misdeeds.

The issue being raised is that, laws in relation to minors should really be reviewed and harsher sentences imposed, more in line with the crime committed, with less consideration given to their being slightly shy of the age necessary to be tried as an adult.

PS - did you miss the part where they took a spiked baseball bat to the head of a child? And you're beefing over terminology? Really?

Beta Ray Bill

I think the age of protection needs to be reduced to 12.

After the age of 12 you know the difference between right and wrong. If you're caught doing a thing then you should be named... 100%

part of the punishment if convicted (in my eyes) is "Everyone knows what you did"

Feral kids running around causing mayhem and being untouchable is causing all sorts of social issue. Needs to be snubbed out now before it gets to big.

We also need a proper prison capable of holding up to 1000 under 18's in mostly solitary confinement.

The issue is they know they won't go to prison, that has to change. Cause by the time they get to be an adult its to late for them. (They've had years of 0 consequences)

Sugar_Rush

I took a screen shot from some thread here a while ago, specifically because it so accurately illustrates the issue which requires review.

Witcher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331838#Comment_121331838

I'm 'beefing'because you completely invented parts of the story in order to stoke outrage. Parts you still have not addressed or explained why you added them.

You were caught in a lie and are now playing the, predictable, 'lets talk about the serious issues here' card to cover up your lie.

Because being under 16 Irish law regards them as minors

Eh..no. Again, you demonstrate a very poor understanding of the justice system, I don't think you're best placed to suggest changes to it.

Witcher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331862#Comment_121331862

And it was explained in that thread that there is no such thing as 'the age of criminal consent'. There is the age of criminal responsibility which is already 12.

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331938#Comment_121331938

So what's your thoughts on the scumbags using a spiked baseball bat on the head of a child and now back walking the streets, less than a day later?

Is that cool with you?

Witcher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332619#Comment_121332619

Nevermind this 'argument from outrage' fallacy style of posting.

Why did you lie about the circumstances of this incident in your opening post? Address that or nobody is going to engage with you here.

You continue to perpetuate the falsehood that the age of criminal responsibility here is 16 despite being told in several threads over the last few months that it's 12. Posters have grown tired of your shtick at this stage.

You seem to think you can add your own 'facts' into an incident and when challenged on them play the 'oh but the victims, you clearly don't care about them!' You care so little for the victims you're lying about the incident and making arguments for change with no knowledge of the thing you're actually trying to change.

'I don't know what the current situation is but I'll change it until I do' is your basic argument across several threads now.

Notmything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332619#Comment_121332619

Nobody is suggesting it's "cool". But people are released on bail everyday for a variety of alleged offences. That's how the legal system works. I haven't read anywhere about them laughing at the situation and telling people they'll get away with it. A few links if they exist please.

Minors can and have been sentenced to periods of incarceration so there is nothing to say this won't be the outcome here. And depending on the sentence they may be moved to an adult prison when they turn 18.

It would do you know harm to perhaps read up on law and minors as you seem to have a loose grasp of the facts. I've worked within the system and it's not the joke you think it is. It's about trying to give young people a second chance so they haven't ruined any future they might have. Unfortunately the press only ever focuses on those who end up repeat offending, not those who do change.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331860#Comment_121331860

I think the age of protection needs to be reduced to 12.

I think it should be done per crime type committed e.g. if you perpetuate a violent crime against an individual you will be named no matter what age they are. Rational being people have a right to know if there is a violent person living in their vicinity.

Beta Ray Bill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332775#Comment_121332775

Wouldn't be overly sure about under 12, still in primary school.

You'd be surprised about the amount of family members (uncles, aunts, cousins, grandparents, etc) that have no idea what their under 18 relation is up to because they cannot be named. In my mind it provides great way to avoid judgement within the extended family.... which is bad.

Years ago, an ex of mine's brother went to prison for a few weeks (I think he was 19 at the time) it was all hush hush. No one knew except immediate family.

The other thing that needs to be removed is "The right to be forgotten"... why should you have such a right?

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332744#Comment_121332744

What I am certain of is, there is a heinous, unaddressed scumbag culture, from which this type of behaviour directly stems.

The offenders in question didn't take some random flight-of-fancy, they come from an ethos, a background, a way of thinking, a culture, where not only is it perfectly fine to behaviour under such terms;

But can actually be glamorized.

They're the "bad boys", edgy, cool, dangerous, exciting.

The reality is, the political, judicial and criminal system are basically picking weeds as they grow, instead of treating the soil;

Instead of addressing the culture that facilitates the growth of that ugliness.

Because the facts are, behaviour of this nature is not slowing down, and the entire justice system hardly puts so much as a dent in it.

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331860#Comment_121331860

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332836#Comment_121332836

I think the age of protection needs to be reduced to 12.

The other thing that needs to be removed is "The right to be forgotten"... why should you have such a right?

I agree on both counts.

Notmything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333021#Comment_121333021

Lots of words, not a lot of answers.

What are you going to do to help?

Cause it is a societal issue and it will take a lot more than the government, courts, gardai to fix.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121333403#Comment_121333403

He'll start yet another thread on boards obviously. That will help.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331838#Comment_121331838

Because being under 16 Irish law regards them as minors, which they know, and know repercussions will be minimal no matter how grievous their misdeeds.

Tell that to Boy A & B.

Beasty

OP, not only have your claims been largely dismissed above but you are also discussing something before the courts, and involving minors

Closed