Are those hangers with fans any good?

UnhappyCustomer

I’m looking into alternatives to how to dry the clothes inside. Apart fell the tumble dryers I came across those hanger from foxy dry.

how are they? Did anybody test them? If not good, what would be your recommendation?

Redlim

Haven't used one of those so I've no idea how good they work but can recommend using a dehumidifier to dry clothes indoors during the winter.

The dehumidifier actually takes all the moisture from the clothes (as well as the house in general) into its water container. That's a much better way than the fan you've suggested which just sends that moisture all around your house as the moisture has to go somewhere. All that extra moisture could then cause damp and mould.

10-10-20

I did a test once to see how much moisture was in two machine-spun towels (at 800 and 1200 RPM spin). One was a bath towel and the other a small hand towel. The idea was to see how much moisture would be added to the room air if I was to use one of those air drying methods.

So the towels came out of the washing machine after an 800 spin at 1,192g (1.1kg) and 209g (0.2kg). After a 1200 spin the same towels came out at 1,052g and 176g. After line-drying the towels for 4 hours on a warm morning, they weighed at 714g and 122g respectively, after 8 hours they were 710g and 124g (the damp air in the evening added some moisture!). After putting the towels into a dryer for 25 mins they then weighed at their final value of 664g and 115g.

So the moisture content of each towel was 528g for the bath towel and 94g for the hand towel from 800 spin. That's 0.62 of a liter of water for just two towels. (To convert from grams to liters of water, just divide by 1000.)

So the point here is that if you use an air drying rack, you're adding significant moisture into the house which either gets deposited on windows or walls and then goes on to create mold in living areas and condensation in the attic.

So for that reason, I'm not recommending those drying racks to anybody.

UnhappyCustomer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121323656#Comment_121323656

I'm using a really small dehumidifier at the minute but based on this I should invest in a good one. Thanks!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330933#Comment_121330933

Awesome research and test! I'm definitely not getting one of these now! I'm thinking now of putting a rack on top of a radiator in the utility and besides a vent where I would put a fan. Something like this:

Redlim

That might work better than the original hanger with a fan, but would a good dehumidifier not be a better and easier solution than having to build a rack and install an extractor? You'd be heating the utility only to be getting rid of that heat again through the extractor, which might not be ideal in the colder months when most drying is done indoors. At least with the dehumidifier you're not losing heat and you're not tied to drying only in the utility as it's mobile. You can also use it elsewhere in the house for any general humidity issues.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331312#Comment_121331312

Couple of things in relation to using a dehumidifier for drying clothes - look, they'll do the job but it's going to be more energy consuming that using a dryer instead as the dehumidifier ends up dehumidifying a much larger area, and has to put in more work to do so. Dehumidifiers can really consume lots of energy in this regard. I've defaulted to using the dryer more as a result of this! My rule is: dry outside if you can, use the dryer as a second option and inside rack-drying and dehumidifier as the last option.

But yes, dehumidifiers are very useful for general maintenance of the humidity level overall, especially when it comes down to removing cooking or showering humidity, that's where they are most beneficial, in my opinion.

Redlim

@10-10-20 Based on your first post in this thread I'd be fairly confident you've properly weighed up whether it's better to use the tumble trier vs the dehumidifier so I'm definitely open to your argument.

I haven't done any tests myself as I don't have a tumble drier but looking at a standard condenser drier on Curry's website it says in the specs it uses 4.75 kWh per load (link below). The dehumidifier would use only around a quarter of that over the 6 hours of its drying cycle. Place the washing and dehumidifier in a small closed room so it's more targeted to dry the clothes and not allowing moisture spread around the house.

https://www.currys.ie/products/beko-dtkce80021w-8-kg-condenser-tumble-dryer-white-10211744.html?searchTerm=Tumble%20

I found a Meaco article (below) where they break down the running costs for drying a load vs a tumble drier and it's saying it's around £0.30 for the dehumidifier vs £1.35 for the tumble drier based on a price of £0.30 per kWh. Obviously they're promoting their own product but the sums seem fairly ok to me. Breakdown of costs is in the final section. I'm no expert though so maybe I'm missing something?

https://blog.meaco.com/how-to-save-nearly-300-a-year-when-drying-your-laundry-with-a-meacodry-arete-one-dehumidifier-and-air-purifier/#comments

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331766#Comment_121331766

Hi, I thought I had good data to support this but Home Assistant decided to retire some of the saved data from April of this year when I tested it, so I have gaps. But it worked out roughly like this: A full load of washing in a small back-hall (1.5m x 3m) with a Meaco desiccant dehumidifier was running at 630w for a period of 8hrs overnight to dry the clothes. That's 5.04kW.

A condensing dryer was used to dry a load recently, it took 1hr and 30 mins and it consumed 2.1kW over that time.

The thing that I see as the largest efficiency loss with dehumidifiers is the way that they heat up the air (as necessary part of desiccant dehumidifiers), so the back-hall was heated to around 32 degrees C for the entire duration of the 8hr drying cycle. As our back-hall has external walls on three sides, the losses through the walls and ceilings there is huge.

So my data at the time suggested that de-humidification was less efficient than a dryer when working with a full load, from wet to dry.

So somebody's waffling - either Curry's or Meaco! :)

Redlim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332452#Comment_121332452

Ah ok, that makes sense with a dessicant type dehumidifier which is much more energy hungry than the compressor type which will run at around 150-250w depending on size.

The below link has a handy table of Meaco brand dehumidifiers including the running watts. I'm sure it would be similar for equivalent size/type models for other brands. It's in line with the 600w you mention for your dessicant version. The extra heat from the dessicant is handy if you need it but definitely a waste in your case. I was weighing up the pros and cons of the two types for a while and went with the compressor in the end as it's cheaper to run in a house that's reasonably warm.

https://www.meaco.ie/meaco-dehumidifiers-compared/

UnhappyCustomer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331312#Comment_121331312

I will put the rack on anyway because, at the minute, the clothes are from one side to the other of the room, and I'm sick of ducking to avoid getting hit by a wet sleeve. Now, you are right with the extractor fan... I think it would get rid of all the heat, it might work for the summer but it wouldn't be great for the winter.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121331766#Comment_121331766

That's a condenser dryer, what about a heat pump tumble dryer? Look at this one, 177kwh/annum

I think that article is very convenient for Meaco, it is impossible not to be biased if they sell one side.

windowcills

Id imagine heat recovery systems work a way better if the humidity is high in the house, water condensing in the heat exchanger would release a lot of energy

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121330933#Comment_121330933

Good work here:

you should really have weighed the fluff catcher before and after...

Just kidding..😂

This also shows the drying costs of 100% cotton jeans vs manmade pants as described in detail in

https://www.easons.com/how-bad-are-bananas-mike-berners-lee-9781788163811?gclid=CjwKCAiA3aeqBhBzEiwAxFiOBuSAI_79h_d_xYxKjDUtbWGfC3TcDuEu134yt5v79AiPGbkN_ikWjRoCTQQQAvD_BwE

Deeec

Problems from drying indoors depends on the construction quality of the building. I dry alot of washing indoors - usually 1 or 2 loads per day and have never had a problem with condensation or mould. I have a clothes rail in the utility which I hang washing on using hangars - clothes are higher up so never in the way. The rail is beside a half glass door and window so the sunlight dries the clothes within few hours. People may tut tut at this but honestly Ive never had problems and have been doing this over the winter for years. Now the reason for this is my house is insulated well and never gets cold so dampness or mould doesnt develop. In my old house it was much harder in that the house was cold and the damp clothes made it even colder.

Dehumidifiers are expensive to run and take up space - I think you would be better off using the dryer than using an electrical gadget to help dry.

A friend uses a gazebo type thing which is put over her outdoor washing line so shes able to dry outside even in wet weather. She says its works perfect - Could this be an option if you have outdoor space?

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121335852#Comment_121335852

I don't mean to be preachy here, but you can't always say that it's not causing a problem.

Quick calculation to demonstrate: Let's take a modern 100m^3 house which is 50% RH at 20 degrees C. We can calculate the absolute humidity (the quantity of water per m^3) from this using a table (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humidity) to understand what the fluid load is. In our case it is 8.7g per cubic meter, therefore we can surmise that we have 870g of water in the air alone (not including furnishings, walls, floors... etc). At that temperature and RH the dew-point is a nice low 9.3 C and the humidity level isn't such that it's condensing.

If we take an example of a day where it's cool and damp outside and no wind and we have a washing load which is then hung indoors to dry over a period. Say that load contains a quantity of 1000ml (1000g) of water, and that vapourises over the period to dry the clothes. What happens to the moisture-level in the house? Hypothetically it rises to the point where the air within the house becomes saturated and the clothes stop effectively drying - which is around 80% RH - but the main difference is that you've moved around 5g per m^3 of moisture into the air at that point (13.84g per m^3 at 80% RH @20C). Overall you've added around 500ml of water vapour, your dew-point has now increased to 16.4 C, and you've created a moderately condensing environment at any point on a surface which is less than that temperature.

Now in reality that example is somewhat abstract and there are other factors around what I have said above which such as the permeability of the walls and ceilings to allow water vapour to pass through over time (due to the vapour pressure) or even the ability of furniture and fittings to take on moisture which will slowly drop the RH value overall - and we're also pretending that we have a cold and still day where background ventilation is under-performing. But the point stands: if you're not actively managing the RH level and you're introducing large quantities of moisture into the house, then you're going to have areas in the house which will experience condensation and successive or continual high levels of condensation over Wintertime will lead to mold over time. I see it in mine where the backs of wardrobes have spots of mold, or the cold spot in the external corners of a hipped roof... it happens.

Then the other side of the discussion is around pumped walls leading to warmer houses overall. That's true but as some on here have also pointed out, it's also affecting the permeability of the walls while also increasing the overall temperature, which allows for more moisture-load within the same cubic meter and less moisture loss through the fabric... so yeah - it's a balancing act overall.

Sorry if I waffled on. ;)

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121335744#Comment_121335744

Funny you should say that: My wife prefers heavier style dinner plates and cups over lighter types. It makes me sometimes wonder what the cyclical thermal losses are in the dishwasher given the added weight. 😂

I'll have a look next time I'm in Easons!

Edit: I just bought it there now! :)

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336311#Comment_121336311

Not waffle at all - but way over my head all the same 😂

All I know is that drying indoors in my home causes no issues at all. Utility is large which may help and clothes are spun at high speed. Clothes dry quick because of sunlight from windows. Not a trace of mould or condensation ever. No issue with furniture or anything else either. I never have condensation on the inside of any of my windows ever either. The problems of mould forming is an issue in older poorly insulated, poorly ventilated, cold homes with very little natural light- that's the issue. Modern well built homes don't get cold and thus mould doesn't form - it's basic science.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336478#Comment_121336478

Yes, agreed, but still should be measured or managed! MHRV etc should do-away with many of the mold issues. 👍️

Calahonda52

it's basic science. yes it is

The missing piece here is what sort of ventilation you have.

Your posts so far stress that your house is warm and well insulated so the import of that is that the dewpoint never gets low enough to have moisture condense out

The issue here is that you are espousing a process here whereby you want us to buy into the fact that you can dump maybe 5 litres of water per day as moisture vapour into your house with zero impact on the fabric.

Not all mould is visible

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336823#Comment_121336823

Well I'm just telling you my situation and I know it doesn't cause any issues in my home whatsover. The clothes dry quick due to temperature, sunlight etc. Mould only forms due to specific temperature conditions. In a warm well ventilated home mould will never form!!!!!

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336914#Comment_121336914

You have, yet again, been silent on how YOUR house is ventilated

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121336914#Comment_121336914

Careful here. It can and it does.

UnhappyCustomer

Sorry lads, at the end, what was the result of this discussion?

1 dry outside > 2 tumbler dryer > 3 rack-drying + dehumidifier?

or is there another combination?

Calahonda52

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338186#Comment_121338186

Don't wash!

Just reading Deeec's posts agin and have concluded that the poster does not live in Ireland so are just playing us.

Am out of here and added Deeec to the ignore list

Redlim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338186#Comment_121338186

Outside is obviously by far the best as well as cheapest option (when drying conditions are good). In winter the other options will obviously become more useful. You could argue that a compressor type dehumidifier would be placed at number 2 ahead of a condenser/vented tumble drier, but a heat pump drier probably beats the dehumidifier as it has similar low energy consumption and is fully dedicated to the actual task of drying clothes. Heat pump driers are more expensive to buy though so that needs to be weighed up also.

I went for the compressor dehumidifier option as I wanted to be able to tackle general high humidity as well as dry clothes. Perhaps that's not important to you though.

Clear as mud eh!

UnhappyCustomer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338673#Comment_121338673

However, we need to take into consideration another factor regarding the tumble dryer... they do damage the clothes. I wonder how much a reasonable dehumidifier / low cost, and does it dry the clothes properly as in no odour or anything like that?

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121338294#Comment_121338294

What a rude unnecessary post - I don't think my posts warranted such rudeness from you. I won't post here again seeing as what I post offends you so much!!

Anyway for those interested I do live in Ireland! I'm also not a liar as implied by a very ignorant Calahonda52.

Redlim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121339112#Comment_121339112

I guess the damage to clothes from a tumble drier is another consideration alright but I can't speak from experience as I don't have one.

Yeah the dehumidifier will dry the clothes fully so there'll be no damp clothes smell left over. You just need to ensure you leave them hanging for long enough - generally around 6 hours but maybe a bit longer if you have a bunch of heavier/wetter clothes. You'll have to regularly empty the water tank but that's the same for a lot of tumble dryers unless they're piped to a drain. Some dehumidifiers can be connected to drain with a hose also.

In terms of cost to buy, a decent one will be somewhere between 200-350 depending on the size you need.