Tesla Autopilot & Irish Law

Seth Brundle

I see that a driver was cleared of dangerous driving by not holding the steering wheel. Although I haven't an Indo account so can't see the details of why he got off, my understanding was that the autopilot feature wasn't sanctioned in Ireland. Does this case outcome now mean that it is legal?

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/tesla-owner-who-drove-with-no-hands-on-m50-on-autopilot-cleared-of-dangerous-driving/a2143801059.html

It also backs up the belief that a dangerous driving conviction in Ireland is very difficult to secure!

tjhook

I don't work in the law but I would assume this is some kind of precedence. Or at least it would be strange if another judge would have a very different judgement for another case with the same circumstances.

Basically the article says that the accused was in the car without his hands on the wheel. Traffic was light. It was accepted by all concerned that there was no immediate danger. When asked if it would be "better" to have two hands on the wheel, the accused replied "probably, yes".

I'm not sure that driving an autonomous car without hands on the wheel constitutes dangerous driving. According to the article, for dangerous driving there has to be "serious direct risk to another person". I've never seen any figures to indicate that an autonomous car is statistically any more dangerous than a human being in control - at least on a good road (in this case the M50).

It's definitely interesting though.

Seth Brundle

RTE have an article on this giving more details on the court hearing...

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2023/1026/1413228-noel-bourke-court/

standardg60

Having seen it in action it's an amazing bit of kit, but you have to maintain some sort of contact with the steering wheel so maybe he was with his knees or had momentarily folded his arms.

It's not the cars on autopilot who do the damage, it's the drivers engaged on autopilot of the cars that don't.

SteM

The full story is on the RTE site

https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2023/1026/1413228-noel-bourke-court/

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121287867#Comment_121287867

Volvo pilot assist very similar. Difference is with volvo the steering wheel must be held every 30 seconds for 2 seconds

L1011

District Court hearings set no precedent at all.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121287880#Comment_121287880

Yes when I said maintain it asks you to contact the steering wheel every so often, otherwise as the defendant stated it will come to a stop.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121287810#Comment_121287810

Precedence flows down, not sideways. This was in the District Court, the lowest court so no precedent.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121288009#Comment_121288009

+1

The next district court judge could rule the exact opposite, and the next judge the same as the first judge.

No precedent is set, until it gets to a higher court, ideally the high court.

KLF

It seems the judge was bamboozled by his account of the technology and found it easier to just dismiss the case

MarkN

Knees? Folded arms? Must’ve missed that part of the driving test…

Padraig Mor

Tesla Full Self Driving (which is what most people are talking about when they mention autopilot) is not available or legal in the EU. It is one of three grades of "autopilot" available on Teslas - the other two are little different from cruise control systems available on most other marques despite the hype. Both of the available systems in Ireland require you to keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times, even if autosteer is enabled - and will nag you and ultimately switch off if you don't. As such, the driver in this case was either using his knees, or a cheat of some description (weight) - in any event he was using the system in violation of Tesla instructions and should have been convicted if the court had any clue how the system worked - and it seems our media cannot do even a ten second Google to get the relevant info.

If I'm correct he's also a Boardsie? I'm pretty sure I've seen a Tesla owner here saying they worked in vehicle autonomous driving systems like this chap. Damned if I recall the handle though.