Lower Decks S4-E9 "The Inner Fight" Spoilers Whitin.

AMKC

Very secretive on this episode title they were. Only just appeared in the last hour.

Oh that was good and yes some in here even predicted what was happening but nit totally right close do.

Wait till you see who the predoconeist is.

Spoiler Warning

So I guess that makes Nick Lacarno Canon then

This is part 1 by the way it is continued next week.

flazio

At around 1pm Irish time expect the Lucasfilm lawyers phones to start hopping 😁

Loved that. Remind me, is that murdered friend the girl from the TNG episode Lower Decks?

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285298#Comment_121285298

Yup, the series Lower Decks is now a continuation of the TNG episode Lower Decks.

There's a lot to unpack in this one. The return of Nick Locarno, and Robert Duncan McNeill playing him. And he's the villain promoting a lower decker rebellion it seems. They pretty much ignored the arc in the episodes previous, only repeating the same teaser scene only to now go absolutely full in on it.

Some of the scenes seemed to parallel the movies, the end fight from Search for Spock, and Bird of Prey hijacking from later on in the same movie to a lesser degree.

corkie

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/The_Inner_Fight_%28episode%29

Enjoyable episode.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Lower_Decks_%28episode%29

@AMKC predaconist??

Error in spelling? I get your gist! What is the definition?

Edit: -

Picard says that he thinks that Locarno wanted to end his Academy days in a blaze of glory and convinced the team to perform the maneuver for the commencement demonstration. If it worked, Nova Squadron would thrill the assembled guests and Locarno would graduate as a living legend.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/The_First_Duty_%28episode%29

CastorTroy

They have to get Paris to help them to face Nick, right?

TheValeyard

Was an interesting episode. Still so many questions to be answered though.

Interesting they made Nick Canon. (I know the whole Tom Paris thing)

Think it still might be Tin Man? Who knows.

Why strand everyone on those planets?

Why were the Klingons working with Nick?

Questions to be answered next week.

Then is that it for a long while with Trek?

Spear

Just noticed a small detail. Nick has a symbol on his jacket, which is also present on the bird of prey wing, so it seems like he was using the mutinied ships to build a faction.

Edit: And now I've seen a comment that it's the starburst pattern from the First Duty episode.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121288472#Comment_121288472

Maybe for a bit but season 5 of Lower Decks will be out next year anyway.

Think the next season of SNW is still a good bit off unfortunately. Not sure what else. Maybe they will surprise us.

flazio

Netflix will have Prodigy early next year.

JayRoc

That went from being "ugh, more Insufferable Mariner, this is getting so boring" to "this is my favourite episode of the season" in a few minutes.

breezy1985

Really good episode. Brought the plot on and also managed to drop loads of call backs both subtle and overt.

I wonder has anyone ever done a count on how much Freeman says "my academy days"

Not sure why people are saying "Nick Locarno is canon now" he always was. Had a whole episode about him.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285298#Comment_121285298

I was really surprised it went beyond "Mos Eisley" planet with that Endor scene at the end.

JayRoc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121290124#Comment_121290124

"Not sure why people are saying "Nick Locarno is canon now" he always was. Had a whole episode about him"

Yeah, don't really understand that myself. Why wouldn't The First Duty be canon?

TheValeyard

"Locarno was supposed to be on Voyager, but legal issues, like having to pay royalties to the writers of The First Duty for every episode of Voyager, made the idea unworkable, so they turned him into a different character"

So for a lot of peoples head canon Tom Paris is Locarno.

Probably turn out they are transporter clones or something

Greyjoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121289397#Comment_121289397

Had the same reaction myself. When the episode started it felt like Mariner's character arc was regressing but they justified it with the backstory with Sito. Having said that it might have worked better if the writers had seeded the connection to Sito & Mariner earlier in the series. It feels a little late in the day for Mariner to reveal this pivotal relationship she had all of a sudden. I enjoyed the fact that Klingon blood was coloured pink and that the "anti venom" suits resembled the old TOS environmental suits.

Capt Freeman's reaction to the Corombite "puppet" was one of the funniest jokes in the entire series. Her reaction combined with Rutherford's scan made me howl with laughter.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121290854#Comment_121290854

Paris being Locarno is a fan theory which is the exact opposite of canon.

Canon is Locarno was a cadet alongside Wesley and Tom Paris was on Voyager.

Next people will be saying Worf's brother is Ben Disco's son.

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121290922#Comment_121290922

Did you even read what I posted?

Lorcarno was meant to be Tom Paris but couldnt because of legal fees.

So it becomes people's head canon, because it was the shows producers original plan that he would be.

Nothing as ridiculous as your Worfs-Bro-Sisko-Son thing.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121292165#Comment_121292165

The Worf bit was a joke.

I know the Locarno/Paris thing pretty much all Star Trek fans how that. It under no circumstances makes Locarno not canon.

In real life stuff like why Locarno became Paris has nothing to do with canon.

Evade

Not sure how I feel about Mariner becoming the Forest Gump of Star Trek, the late 24th century events at least. But then I did like them shutting down the "Picard killed Sito" take I've seen for the last 30 years.

At first I thought we were going to get all the TNG era doppelganger in one episode, but then Crusher.

breezy1985

The significance of the list is that all 4 would be outside Federation jurisdiction at the time.

corkie

https://www.slashfilm.com/1428984/star-trek-lower-decks-joke-gates-mcfadden-dr-crusher-dancing/

As Boimler shifts in his sleep, he mutters blissfully "Teach me to tap dance, Beverly Crusher" before rolling over and snoring again.

She kept her dancing acumen on the down low merely because she didn't want to be mocked as "the dancing doctor." It was only in the episode "Data's Day" (January 7, 1991) that audiences got to see Dr. Crusher's dance skills in action.

Seems they pick out the odd comments to write an article about.

FGR

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121293855#Comment_121293855

On a bit of a side note I also appreciate how the writers assured Picard as one who, although disliking his role on sending junior officers to their doom, is the same man who is willing to go on dangerous, life threatening missions himself as per Chain of Command.

It showed he wasn't a general who sat in a manor 20 miles behind the trenches.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301768#Comment_121301768

He saw his fair share of caves as a captain 🤣

flazio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121301991#Comment_121301991

How many lights were in the cave?

breezy1985

I only just copped something. If Mariner and Sito Jaxa were best friends in the academy that means she probably knows Locarno very well.

I always forget Jaxa was also in that episode. Mariner probably also knew the cadet who died.

TheValeyard

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121303252#Comment_121303252

Ah fcuk. That means she knows Wesley Crusher.

Stark

Nice to finally get a firm sense of Mariner's tenure. There's been some hints but also some inconsistencies up till now. I'm guessing since "First Duty" took place in 2368 and presuming Wesley Crusher and Wil Wheaton were the same age (20), then that would mean Mariner is in her early 30s at the time of Lower Decks (2380 - 2382). Still plenty of time to turn her career around. Big inconsistency is that one of her academy friends is already a captain at the time of Lower Decks and expected Mariner to be the same but that would break even Kirk's record for becoming captain by a few years. Lt. Cmdr seems more realistic.

Nice to see Locarno officially back. I know "First Duty" is canon but it did seem like they were subtly retconning his character out of existence after Paris came along.

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121303430#Comment_121303430

Riker's classmate was a captain in season one, a command Riker turned down, which would have meant it took 7 years from graduation to reach captain. The Dominion War should have accelerated promotions too so 10 or so years isn't unrealistic.

Stark

Does seem a little weird that a starship full of people would all report up to a 20-something year old, almost has a "Little Rascals" vibe to it. I wonder if Riker's classmate was an actual 4-pips captain or was simply referred to as "captain" in the naval tradition of being in command of a vessel but with a lower rank. Eg: Sisko when he was in command of DS9 but with Commander Rank or Dax and Worf when they were in command of the Defiant. It seems like the 4 pips are only strictly required to be in command of a larger ship/"capital ship". Riker's friend could have been a Lt. Cmdr but in command of a small vessel. I remember Riker's goal upon graduation was "Captain by age 35" which was considered a lofty goal.

Edit: Never mind, found a picture of Paul Rice and he has 4 pips on his collar. Thought given the USS Drake's "light cruiser" status, he might have retained 2.5/3 pips Sisko style.

breezy1985

From what we have seen it looks like everyone joins the academy young but it might not be the case.

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121304857#Comment_121304857

It's hard to draw real world parallels. Voyager has the crew compliment of a modern destroyer usually captained by a commander (O5). The light/heavy cruiser distinction was almost solely down to the size of the main batteries. Several IJN light cruisers were uparmed to 203mm guns from 155mm guns once they withdrew from naval limitation treaties immediately changing their classification to heavy cruisers.

There are plenty of real example of young people in fairly important positions. If you've ever seen Band of Brothers Richard Winters was only 27 when the war ended and he was the acting battalion commander IIRC. Things are a little slower these days though, in the US at least, you would need 13 years after graduation to even be legally eligible for promotion to captain (O6) and in practice you probably won't get there before 18 years.

pixelburp

That was a good, character focused episode. The little admission from Mariner an effective efficient bit of backstory that boiled down the inherent contradiction of Starfleet's recent history; of course the wars would have a net negative effect on people. They just want study plants. Though if I hadn't read this thread I'd not have known Sito and Locarno were both preexisting characters from Trek, however small they might have been.

Biggest laugh for me has to be the "puppet" gag. A cute TOS nod that turned into a good bit of farce.