New Planning Permission on a site with pre-existing planning permission

ColcloughP

My wife and I are looking to buy a site just outside Galway and the only ones that don't come with a local housing need are considerably more expensive (fair enough) and already come with full planning permission for a house. The only thing is that we're set on designing our own home and have no interest in going through the grief of a self build without the advantage of choosing the design ourselves. It's the worst of both worlds.

So let's say we buy a site with pre-existing planning permission and we decide to submit a new plan with our own completely different design, but with a roughly similar size. How would the council react? Would they deny it on the grounds that there are already plans in place? Or would it make it easier for us to get planning as long as we're not exceeding the existing plan? Either way I understand that we'd have to start from scratch.

Basically, I just don't want to get caught buying a site and have to build a house on it that I don't want to live in.

GSBellew

I do not know about Galway, you would need to check the development plan, but here in Louth the person who gets planning permission in a local needs area has to live in the house for the first seven years, so here you can not just buy a site with planning permission unless you meet the local needs conditions.

Unless you are saying that the area you are looking at is not local needs? in which case you could buy a site and then apply for a change of the granted permission, change of house type, site layout etc.

ColcloughP

Okay. It's good to know that, putting the local need requirement aside, I'm not bound to whatever plans exist on the site at purchase.

Some sites don't have a local need. They're more expensive, mainly because they're less restrictive. There are also far fewer of them.

As for sites with the local need requirements, in my case, I'm about 90% sure I'd meet them. The parish I'm interested in is next door to the one I grew up in and most sites are about 4-5km away from my family home where my parents both still live. That's well within the 8km limit laid out in Galway council's development plan. I'll also be able to get a statement from the local golf club that I've been a member since I was a child. It actually lapsed about 20 years ago, but if I renew it they'll more than likely make it out that it was concurrent since my parents know the owners very well.

The only things working against me are the fact that my family home is actually inside Galway City Council. The boundary between my parish and the one I'm interested in is also a part of the city/council boundary. I'm hoping that the 8km range is universal and doesn't exclude areas from other councils. Also school records won't work since I went to school in the city centre. The other issue is that they haven't defined what they meant by a "strong demonstrable economic or social need". My wife and I work remotely, so it's not like I'll be commuting out of the area into the city. What I think will work for us is that by the time we go about buying a site we'll have sold up here in Dublin and moved in with my parents. So I'm hoping that'll justify an economic need for housing. The council won't have to know how long we were living there and that we owned a place before. Although their rules seem to only rule out people who've owned land in the area where you're looking to build.

But on balance, I feel like having grown up and socialised (via the golf club) within 8km will suffice.

muffler

I'm confused. You're talking about buying a site with PP that has no occupancy condition but then proceed to state how you might meet the rural housing requirements. Which type of site are you proposing to buy?

ColcloughP

My original question was just in relation to sites with no occupancy condition. But the first reply brought up the occupancy condition and so on a tangent I mentioned that I might be able to meet it anyway.

But putting aside the occupancy condition, my main question is that if you buy a site with full planning permission in place, will that make it difficult to apply for planning for an entirely different house.

Based on the first reply it seems like that shouldn't be a problem.

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121270173#Comment_121270173

The first reply is relevant, what conditions are attached to the planning permission already given.

Homer

Do you currently own a home? I have heard some councils that will rule you out of local needs condition as you don’t have a need.

muffler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121270173#Comment_121270173

There shouldn't really be an issue providing the revised plans show a house that conforms with the local council's design guide.

ColcloughP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121270256#Comment_121270256

Yes, but the plan is to sell that and move in with my parents before looking to buy a site. Galway County Council also clearly state that a history of already owning a home in the area you're looking to build will disqualify you, but the place we currently own is in Dublin. I'd imagine that if we don't volunteer the information about us having owned an apartment in Dublin that they're unlikely to find out.

ColcloughP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121270256#Comment_121270256

We're looking at few sites. Most have a local housing condition, but some do not. It's probably moot since I believe that we would qualify as having a local need anyway.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121270558#Comment_121270558

Being a member of the golf club is not a local need (especially when you are not actually a member). Nor is needing a house an economic need.

You need to demonstrate why you need to live in that specific local area, not why you need a house. Basically you are relying on whether living nearby in Galway city qualifies for local need in Galway county. I would not be assuming it does without confirming. Lacking the local needs aspect ill limit the site you can buy.

But for what ever site you buy, you are not limited by the approved planning. Obvious, you'd still need to meet certain requirements as that plan did.

ColcloughP

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121276909#Comment_121276909

Sorry for the late reply. So to clarify things, Galway CoCo require proof of rural links and substantiated housing need.

The golf club is more to do with establishing rural links. I've already checked this with a local architect and they said local club membership is a common example. Having grown up within 8km of the site you're looking to build on is the main one and the records of my parent's ongoing ownership of the house I grew up in will prove that.

Housing need is more complicated and unfortunately Galway CoCo are very vague on that. They just say a social or economic need. Having a job locally would tick the box, but there tend not to be many jobs in these rural areas anyway so I doubt if this is something many of the successful bids. The planners I talked to said that living with your parents is a common one. I'd imagine that you'd need a little something extra to say why that area though.

I haven't run it by the planners yet, but I have 2 things in mind that both justify needing to live near my parents' house (same one I grew up in). First is that we hope to have kids by the time we're looking to buy. My parents will be helping out with childcare and we'd like to be living closer to them for this reason.

The other is that in 10- years they'll need care and my 4 siblings live in Dublin and have no intention on moving back to Galway. As the only child living in Galway, I'll be the main child responsible for their care and that in my mind creates a substantiated need. Of course, the doubt over this is whether the council will consider a scenario this far ahead. I think it makes sense since I don't want to live far away from them when that comes or to have to move away from a house which I'm intending on being my forever home.

All that having been said, in the past week, it's looking more likely that we'll end up buying a site nearer to Galway that has no local only restrictions on it. This is basically sites in land that's recently rezoned to residential. These sites are far more expensive for this reason, not to mention they're in very short supply. For that reason they attract bidding wars, but getting planning permission is quite easy.

mickdw

In general case, revising the design of the house should not be a major issue and is much easier than starting from scratch as you will not have to redo trial hole or any of the other items such as site access so its just the change of house type. You.would be tied to original expiry date though.

If occupancy clause involved, you are into a world of crap.

Mellor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121300271#Comment_121300271

Having grown up in the area is a link. The proximity to you patents is a valid need.

I raised the golf membership as not being that strong as a) you’re not actually a member, and b) where you to take golf back up, you could do that anywhere. Would be different if somebody had a history of involvement beyond personal membership.