Should I buy a Second Hand Electric car

Pentax

Hi All,

My family car recently broke down due too many short journeys on a diesel engine. We use the car for dropping kids to school, shopping trips and going to the gym. This resulted in the car DPF filter clogging up with soot, twice in the last year. Car is now for sale.

We are considering a second hand electric car but not sure what to look at. We really don't want to spend more than 20k, 25k at a push.

Are second hand battery cars a good idea? I really cant afford to end up with dead batteries in a couple of years because it was 3 years old when we bought it.

Any advise or personal experiences would be appreciated.

Thank you all in advance.

Buddy Bubs

I'm not afraid of battery dying but I have a warranty, most cars have 8 year warranties on batteries. That warranty would transfer to you.

I would buy a used EV no problem, I am giving serious consideration to buying a high end EV when prices drop and giving my current one to the missus.

2 options to look at for cars.

For about 13 to 15k look at Hyundai Ioniq from around 2017/18. Smaller batteries but still around 200kms range according to owners here who rave about them.

For top end of your budget Volkswagen id3 from 2020, will be about 325-350kms range

Note the ranges will drop a bit in cold weather and motorway driving over 100kmph.

So depends on what you need it for, I'd be looking at id3 if you could afford it. I have cupra born which is more or less same car, I think it looks much better but that's subjective. You won't find one in budget for another 2 years or so as they only came out in 2022.

If you're mostly a short journey person, Ioniq would be ideal entry point into EV and if you get a good deal I can't see you losing too much on it when you go to sell whenever that may be.

Other options, although I don't know much about them are the Hyundai Kona, Nissan Leaf, Peugeot e208. Hyundai and Peugeot will be in upper end or your budget, Leaf available from 5k for the oldest ones (I wouldn't recommend) all the way up to top of budget.

the_amazing_raisin

Have you got a second car in the house for longer journeys, or would the EV be expected to handle that?

Also do you have a driveway and can get a home charger?

I would say offhand an EV would absolutely suit your needs. If it's just going to be for short drives around your area then pretty much any EV will suit you

If it's going to be doing longer journeys, then I'd say something like an Ioniq would be the minimum you should aim for. Ideally a Kona or E-Niro would be able to handle anything and be in your price range

If you can stretch the budget an ID.3 might be an option too

If your daily driving distance is 100 km or less, a 132-> Nissan Leaf with the newer 24 kWh battery is also worth checking out. They can be had from about €6000 and are reliable and as close to 0 cost motoring including depreciation as you can possibly get. The battery won't be an issue on them anytime soon and you'd save a lot on upfront costs. For a couple of k more you can also get the 30 kWh battery which has a bit more range. The form factor with high seating position is better than Ioniq for local driving imo.

I agree that the Ioniq is a better choice if you need to do occasional longer trips as it supports CCS charging and in general is a more modern vehicle. But perhaps you could become a two vehicle household with the diesel for long trips and a cheap EV for local driving as Ioniq is not really suitable as the only car for any family that needs more a handful of longer drives a year.

Pentax

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171746#Comment_121171746

Thanks Buddy, that is some useful information. Do you know anything about the e-Golf? Seems like a good car?

Pentax

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171791#Comment_121171791

Hi sh81722, have you had any experience with the e-Golf?

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171994#Comment_121171994

No I don't really, it's an early EV effort from VW which was very quickly superceded by the ID range. It's a previous generation really v the ID being the current.

I'd imagine it's somewhere on par with the original Ioniq as an EV but I'm not sure. Its not as popular here as the Ioniq anyway, and I'd guess it's more expensive. If it was a good proposition EV I'd imagine it would be talked about a lot here and recommended and I don't see much of it..

Golf is a nice car in any guise. ID3 is a superior EV no matter what way you look at it. Ioniq is like god on this forum!

Pentax

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171774#Comment_121171774

Hi the_amazing_raisin,

Yes we have another diesel car that never gave trouble that were going to keep for the long journeys. We also have drive way so charging shouldnt be a problem.

Red Silurian

You used to get second hand EVs at a fraction of the new price. Times have changed since then but from looking at donedeal you should still be able to pick up a 3 year old EV for less than the price of an equivalent 3 year old ICE

As for battery degradation, they degrade slowly over time, not in one fail swoop so don't let it bother you too much

liamog

The e-Golf comes in two battery sizes, the original (20.5kWh) was a bit limited, the refresh (2017 to 2021) had a usable battery of 32kWh with about the same range as the 28kWh Ioniq. Charging speed maxes out at 40kW, so is a bit limited compared to the Ioniq's 70kW peak. In my opinion the e-Golf was much nicer than the Ioniq on the inside, but at the time the prices made the Ioniq much better value for money.

ELM327

The egolf had lower nominal voltage and also no active cooling. The cells are better quality than those in the gen1 leaf so there isnt the same issue with degradation that the leaf has. The egolf is a much nicer car but the Ioniq28 is the skoda octavia of the EV forum for a reason. It did (and does) everything so well. Charges really fast, great range and super efficient. You won't find a more efficient EV for sale. I had 2!

RoscommonHero

Bought a second hand EV 6 months ago and very happy with it. If 90% of your trips are local or at least within 50km (as they are for us) then it's the most sensible and economical choice.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172024#Comment_121172024

In that case I'd recommend the Ioniq, it's got decent range, good sized boot and should be available within budget

It also uses the CCS plug for fast charging, the Leaf uses the older Chademo plug which is starting to be removed from fast chargers. So if you start doing longer journeys (and you will, trust me) then having more chargers available is a plus

As for the battery health, I wouldn't be overly concerned. Most EVs now come with at least an 8 year battery warranty, and even once the 8 years are up it isn't like the battery is suddenly toast. You could easily get double that before the battery has degraded to the point where the car is no longer useful

Furze99

My immediate instinct would be to tread carefully, the market is still developing. Would you buy a second hand battery powered drill? Suppose it depends on the cost.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172314#Comment_121172314

With a budget of around 20k and OP's requirements they are well into the realm of 2018/19 cars. This was the period when EV sales in Ireland moved into the early adopter phase of the innovation curve. We're now seeing that same phase of early adoption in the 2nd hand market.

I don't think OP needs to be as cautious as you suggest, the cars available in 2018 are known quantities with standardised charging infrastructure. The crazy times of innovation were around the 2008-2011 period where strange EVs from unknown manufacturers were on the market, they are a million miles away from the mass market cars sold by Nissan, BMW, Hyundai, Kia that represent cars in the OPs range.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172314#Comment_121172314

Apart from 1st gen leaf, are there any real life stories of battery degradation of a significant level that you wouldn't buy a car? I haven't heard many at all

I've heard of engine failures and gearbox failures since the 1980s and still to this day.

Haven't heard of a 2017 Ioniq for example having a reduced range from what it was new.

eltoastero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172314#Comment_121172314

The battery in a drill doesn't come with an 8 year warranty like most EVs, the battery in a drill doesn't have a Battery Management System in the same league as that in most EVs. The long warranty on the battery and drivetrains would be the reason I'll buy our second EV second hand (when the time comes).

As other have pointed out, the Original Ioniq and e-Golf are good options for the lower end of your budget and there are some ID3s on Donedeal now below €25k (with 4 to 5 years of battery warranty). There are some Tesla Model 3's are at the very upper edge of your budget but might be worth considering if you ever needed a bit more space than an ID3. Hyundai Kona and Kia eNiro can also be had for less than €25k (again with several years of battery warranty intact, the KIA eNiro should have a 7 year warranty on all parts off the car, not limited to the battery).

zg3409

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121172314#Comment_121172314

This is bad advice. The savings from fuel costs and maintenance costs may be relatively high. EV batteries typically are lasting longer than anyone expected and they are holding their value well.

For the OP a petrol car might be the way to go if your trips are all local, as fuel savings may be insignificant, and you don't have the hassle on the odd long trip of having to stop mid trip and the public chargers may be busy, blocked or broken.

That said if you have a second car, if you own your own home and have Sunday off street parking, so can get a home charger, you should seriously consider an EV. Cheaper ones are limited on range, more expensive ones have double the battery size and do range.

You need to figure out what range you need. Is 100km round trip (50km from home) suitable, or 200km (100km from home) , or 300km (150km from home) needed? As in at the weekends do you use the car regularly to visit people or go on day trips. Public charging is main downside of EV ownership and most people these days are opting for expensive long range EVs. You can save a small fortune getting a short range EV but you have more public charges per year and associated hassle. You could try an EV for a year, and see how it goes. Stay on the cheap end of the market but learn advertised ranges are not real and high speed motorway ranges in winter are far less. Typically I say proceed with caution.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121171746#Comment_121171746

I don't know where you get that prices will ever drop on a high end EV. Car prices are only ever going to go up regardless of battery technology becoming cheaper, especially on high end cars.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121182083#Comment_121182083

Not new cars, I'm talking about used high end EVs. Stories of Porsche Taycan, Audi Etron and Etron GT values sinking like a stone. Half of new value after 2 years kind of sinking. This is in UK now to be honest.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121182240#Comment_121182240

Oh, the way it was written sounded new.

That's very worrying that those cars are dropping in value so much, will put people massively off EV's.

Any idea for the dropoff in value of them?

Most keep their battery 85% even with ridiculous miles so doesn't make sense the value drop off

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121182734#Comment_121182734

They're depreciating like luxobarges did back in the day. There's no critical mass of them sold in Ireland yet to know for sure.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121182240#Comment_121182240

To be fair high end cars always halved in value after 2/3 years in the UK. It’s just normal times returning.

Pentax

Hi All,

Thanks to everyone for sharing their own personal views and experiences. Taking all the above into account we are probably going to go for one of the following

e-golf (2020) - costing approx. 20k

ID3 (2020) - costing approx. 25k

I have read several reviews on line also and so many previous owners of the e-golf seemed to love them. many upgraded to the ID3 but still have a soft spot for the e-golf.

Has anyone on this thread had experiences with the above mentioned cars? Im going to see an ID3 at the end of the week, is there anything i should look out for and its also a private sale.

thanks for your help

Regards

kanuseeme

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/volkswagen-e-up-style-32kwh-82bhp-available-today/34566577?campaign=3

ITs small but new for 20 000, I have no idea on what its like,

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121189269#Comment_121189269

So I would say the main advantages of the ID.3 are:

Longer range (probably 58kWh, giving 300km easily)

Better charging (120kW peak)

More advanced technology

Better driver assist systems

The main disadvantages are the kinda crappy software, although if you get it updated to the latest version that fixes most of the problems

The interior spec is also not up to the same level as the E Golf apparently. Personally I think it's fine but ID.3 definitely has a cheaper interior

Last issue most people have is the looks, the ID cars are very distinctive and look like an EV. E Golf just looks like any other Golf

joe1303l

A half price Taycan would be the job only for Brexit

zg3409

Main issue with golf will be limited real world range, slower public charging speed and very limited range at high speed 120km/h due to body shape, hence proper EVs are shaped to reduce losses at high speed due to wind. The egolf is somewhat obsolete compared to newer EVs so it's value may not hold well. It's a nice car to drive within home charger range, probably better built than id3. Check real world worst case ranges to see if they meet your needs.

For 25k you would get a used 64kWh Kona or Niro with 300-450km range the Kona is around golf size but looks bigger. Not a beautiful car, but great battery size and great real world range.

User1998

You can buy an E Golf privately with manufacturer’s warranty and save yourself a few grand.

joe1303l

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121191305#Comment_121191305

An eGolf is surprisingly efficient if comparing with the likes of an ID.3 for local commuting. Aerodynamic effects are negated by not wasting energy heating or cooling the battery. Obviously this is different for motorway use but any EV with such a small battery won’t be suitable for regular motorway use anyway. Build quality is another league compared with the ID range.