Accompanying licence holder is drunk.

NUTLEY BOY

This a theoretical arising from discussion - not real world.

A is a learner driver.

B is a full licence holder who satisfies the relevant requirements to lawfully accompany A.

B gets drunk to a point that is well over the drink drive limit whilst accompanying A. A is driving.

Does B commit any offence ? If so, what is it ?

Padre_Pio

I would assume that A commits an offence.

Heres the text from Citizen information:

• You must always have someone with a full driving licence in the car with you when you are driving on a learner permit. This person must have had their driving licence for at least 2 years. If the Gardaí stop you, and you are not accompanied by a qualified driver, they can detain the car.

Is someone too drunk to drive a "qualified driver"?

If not, then the learner is at fault.

Trampas

Reading that quote it doesn’t say the person needs to be able to drive the car just needs to qualified driver

Chiarrai92

The accompanying driver has to be in a fit state to take over driving if necessary

When I was learning to drive my instructor told me that the previous weekend one of his students was stopped at a checkpoint when she was picking up her father from the pub. She received penelty points and a fine for driving unaccompanied. But I'm pretty sure the father didn't receive any punishment at least my instructor didn't mention it anyways

But of course she also drove unattended to the pub to pick him up of course

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121147079#Comment_121147079

Does the law state that though?

mickdw

Can a passenger in a car be breathalysed when acting as qualified driver?

Also, is there a requirement for the learner to inform the qualified driver that they are acting in such a role?

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121147083#Comment_121147083

according to the garda quoted here, no, they cannot be breathalysed but it then becomes a judgement call for the garda. and he also states that your 'accompanying qualified driver' ceases to qualify, thus you'd be guilty of driving unaccompanied.

and (my assumption) under the recent law, the drunk passenger would also then be guilty of allowing a learner driver to drive their car unaccompanied (assuming they're the one who owns the car, obviously!)

He added, “The learner driver isn’t covered to drive then, they are not insured if they don’t have an accompanied driver. An asleep person is deemed to be competent but a drunk person is not, if they were to be woke they could drive the person home whereas a drunk person can’t”.

https://www.clareecho.ie/simple-rule-of-thumb-dont-drink-drive-supt-warns-jpc-members/

10-10-20

The Si states: "vehicles of category B, C1, C, D1, D, EB, EC1, EC, ED1 or ED, shall not drive such a vehicle unless he or she is accompanied by and is under the supervision of a qualified person," (S.I. No. 537/2006, reg 17, 6b)

I take that to mean that the qualified person (B) must be capable of supervision. So hypothetically, what would happen if the qualifier driver fell asleep during the drive, would the learner be obliged to pull over until the qualified driver is awake and capable?

But no, I can't see any repercussions on B, but the onus -as the driver of the vehicle - appears to be pushed onto A.

Atlantic Dawn

There is no legal obligation for B to provide a sample of breath so therefore it would not be possible to determine whether they are over the limit or not should they decide they will not provide a sample as would be their right.

There's also no mention of the qualified driver needing to be fit to drive either, they could have a broken leg and be unable to drive yet would still be legal to accompany. Cars generally don't have dual controls so it's simply an advisory role the passenger is having either fit or not to drive.

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121147099#Comment_121147099

That seems to limit the role of the accompanying driver to a taxi alternative, rather than someone experienced who can provide guidance. That surely can't be the legal position.

magicbastarder

there seem to be at least two reasons for needing a qualified driver to accompany you - one is for guidance, and the second would be to take over if necessary. a drunk passenger would legally be able to do neither, but the aforementioned passenger with a broken leg would at least be able to perform one of those duties. i suspect an 'i'm driving my dad home from hospital' reason is not going to run afoul of your average garda.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121147103#Comment_121147103

But no, I can't see any repercussions on B, but the onus -as the driver of the vehicle - appears to be pushed onto A.

if B is the owner of the car, they are guilty of an offence - it's an offence to allow an unaccompanied learner to use your car, since 2018 or 2019.