Time for Another Seanad Referendum.

A decade since we were asked to vote to abolish or reform.

A decade on, and we've seen zero reform—still the same privileged, undemocratic House it was a decade ago.

Since then, it has become a Petri dish of hate and bigotry, fermented by people who would not darken Dáil Éireann's door in a democratic election.

Time for another referendum and no more "reform" bollocks - Reforming is making the Seanad as democratic as the Dáil.

Peregrinus

The Seanad is, notoriously, filled with people who have darkened the doors of Dáil Éireann and who hope to again (and often succeed). Arguably, its the ones who don't seek a career in Dáil Éireann who make the more significant contribution as senators.

Before you can usefully advocate a referendum on Seanad reform, you have to advocate some reforms.

The suggestion here is to "make it as democratic as Dáil Éireann". But, if it were, it could oppose its mandate to that of Dáil Éireann, which might not be good for governance, and certainly wouldn't be good for Dáil Éireann, so this is not a reform that is likely to be put to the people. For this reason, it's usual in two-chamber parliamentary democracies for the members of the second chamber to be selected by a method which doesn't prioritise democratic and egalitarian election systems - members are partly or wholly nominated, or they are chosen ex officio, or they are elected, but in a way which skews representation towards groups that normally are not well-represented in the lower house. So they can't claim to have the same representative role for the nation as a whole as the lower house does.

The majority of the Seanad - 43 members out of 60 - is indirectly elected by members of local governments, who are themselves elected by the people, and another 11 are appointed by the Taoiseach, who is elected by Dáil Éireann, which is elected by the people, so what we have here is. largely, an indirectly elected second chamber.

It could be more democratically elected but, for the reasons already given, that might not be a good idea. You have to ask what the role or function of the Seanad is, or should be. Apart from the potential instability, there doesn't seem to be any point in having a Seanad which simply replicates the composition of Dáil Éireann; if there's to be any point at all to a second house, it should surely be to bring different perspectives and different voices into the legislative process? As presently structured, with the exception of the university senators and some of the more praiseworthy Taoiseach's nominees, it hasn't really done that, so I'm quite open to reforming the system by which the Seanad is filled. But I think we need to talk not about how we don't want it filled, but about how we do, and why that is the best way, before we can talk about a referendum.

L.Ball

yeah should definity pare away at the mechanisms of our democracy, sure there's money to be saved.

I think that it's the NUI ans Dublin University seats which really annoys people.

And no, expanding that to all level 8 degree awarding institutions is not a valid option.

Jim_Hodge

If there's another referendum they will need to make the wording clear. 2013 was very badly worded and many people voting contrary to what they thought they were voting for.

Voters confused by Seanad referendum ballot paper (rte.ie)

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121140518#Comment_121140518

The Irish people voted for exactly that (92% no less, but on a very low turnout) in the 7th amendment in 1979. It's just never been implemented.

It's true that the likes of Ronan Mullen would find it almost impossible to win a Dail seat, but the university consitituencies have also give us David Norris who used his seat to help win a much-needed (and much-opposed) victory for human rights in Ireland. Whereas Mullen is just a whinger who will soon be forgotten once he leaves public life (and if more NUI graduates who aren't ex-Maynooth priests actually used their vote, that could be pretty soon)

Galwayguy35

What will Eileen Flynn do if its abolished.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121140570#Comment_121140570

100%.

I'm all for a Seanad as long as I can vote for it.

As present, it's no bet than the House of Lords.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121161285#Comment_121161285

Well, it's like the CEO of a company trading on the stock exchange and the board of directors taking a look at what the CEO is doing.

Most systems work that way.

Most countries have a two chamber system.

I wouldn't question that, but I would question their salaries, same as the one of all other politicians.

Marcusm

I think that the Seanad should be directly elected via the existing panel system. All voters can participate in a panel of their own choosing without geographic affiliation. Graduates would have the same vote as everyone else but could choose an educational panel or an agricultural etc at their option. Vote should be on the same day as Dail election to avoid it being a second chance house. Local councillors should have all votes removed from them! Not so fussed as to whether the Taoiseach’s appointments are retained.

astrofool

The Dáil is very unlikely to give up any power to the Seanad, in the absence of revolution, it is best gotten rid of.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121140570#Comment_121140570

Enda did that on purpose.