Is my builder responsible?

CandyButcher

Hi All,

Got the worse news today that after trying to turn on our heating in our NEW extension, there is a leak somewhere more than likely under our new floors.

there were two plumbers involved in the extension. 1 of them fit in my new boiler and repiped all downstairs and EVERYTHING worked, UNTIL the extension started.. after the extension was build there is more than likely an uncapped pipe somewhere under the floors.

both plumbers who were involved in the extension are blaming each other. The builder is trying to distance himself from this now blaming one of the plumbers.

Now one of the plumbers is someone we trust and is willing to meet with me and builder and plumber to discuss what was done and possible solution, but the other 2 wont.

what are my options here? Is this the builder’s responsibility? As it was working before exentsion started and now not. Isent the builder the project manager and in charge of checking all this ?

Now unfortunately there was no contract and builder insisted I paid in cash. I have lot of proof via wastapp of the all the back an forward of ongoing works and what I owe him etc

Will the courts entertain me based on that ?

the_pen_turner

who paid the plumber.

who told the plumber what to do

why 2 plumbers

was there a plan or layout of existing pipes

sounds like you did the first re plub yourself and then got a builder to do the extention.

Rows Grower

You need to find where the leak is first and that should be definitive of who is responsible.

CandyButcher

who paid the plumber. 

The builder paid both plumbers for there work on the extension.

who told the plumber what to do

Id imagine the builder certainly not me.

why 2 plumbers

long story, shortly before extension was built I got my family plumber in to fit a new boiler and repipe downstairs. In which he did and it worked. Then the extension started, he worked 1 day only on the extension part, went on two weeks holidays, so the builder got in his own plumber who finished the job by installing a rad and removing a rad, connected mains to sink. (We suspect he didn’t blank off the pipes on old rads he moved also)

was there a plan or layout of existing pipes

no plans.

Note:

My family plumber has giving me alot of time trying to figure out this issue and has stated to arrange a meeting with builder and builder’s plumber to gather information, but the builder has told me this is between the two plumbers not him.

kinda shows my plumber is genuine and not shying away whereas they are.

any way I think someone screwed up in the plumbing in the extension and my question is is the builder responsible to make sure plumbing is working after extension is built ? No matter which plumber is to blame it was builders extension project

CandyButcher

Yes unfortunately we will need to dig up my new floors and pull out new kitchen to check pipes..

if we find the leak in the extension part can I bill my builders insurance company? And what is the process there ?

thank you

Rows Grower

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121116697#Comment_121116697

Sounds a bit extreme to locate a leak but if that's the advice you got and you're happy with it drive on.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121116697#Comment_121116697

Speaking from experience unless the builder is willing to resolve you have very little recourse without going legal. No contract and a builder asking for cash is a big red flag.

I would be sticking with your trusted plumber to find a solution.

CandyButcher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121116724#Comment_121116724

Well theres a pipe under the kitchen floors.. and behind the kitchen. Is there other way to locate leaks without digging up the floor

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121116697#Comment_121116697

You've the best ace in you hand in that you already have a plumber who is working on your behalf to troubleshoot this one. The builder is deflecting the issue, he appointed the second plumber, so that's his skin in the game whether he likes it or not.

In terms of fault-finding, there are professional leak finders who could narrow down the leakage area using a tracer gas to a couple of feet, so keep this in mind before you decide on a path which could cause additional damage - for which nobody wants to pay for - to your new kitchen.

CandyButcher

Hi 10-10-20

I didn’t know about these leak finding crowds thanks for information yes it would be brilliant to find the leaks without playing guess work tearing up the floors. Thats if there services are accurate

the_pen_turner

its a messy situation. . you can use a thernal imaging camera to show leaks as well. not super accurate but will show areas that are hotter or colder than the rest

i dont see any reason why the builder wouldnt be responsible . he can chase the plumber seperatly but thats not your problem.

JamBur

Is it a catastrophic leak with no pressure building at all? Or is it a gradual loss of pressure?

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121116697#Comment_121116697

can I bill my builders insurance company?

Having paid cash and having no contract, are you sure he even has insurance?

Whatever you do, don't let the builder wash his hands of it and leave it to the plumbers.

CandyButcher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121116972#Comment_121116972

No visible signs of leaks.

we turned water on

No air coming out of the radiators 

Can hear the water going in but rads not coming on! theres a big space under the floor so definitely a disconnect pipe they never capped or something

Former Former Former

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121117263#Comment_121117263

And the pressure in the heating system is dropping to zero?

ie you have to keep adding more water into it?

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121116954#Comment_121116954

This is an example of what they do, he's amusing to watch too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evx-0c-0waQ

CandyButcher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121117009#Comment_121117009

I stupidly didn’t check. He does have subcontractors working for him and he has his business posted on instagram so id assume he would.

The builder said it plumbers fault and he cant do anything about it. So now id like to know the best procedure to go legal about this to claim off his insurance

C3PO

Was the system not tested on completion?

CandyButcher

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121118349#Comment_121118349

No! The builder in these words told me to get onto the plumber who installed the boiler system that he was responsible for the boiler not working.

but the system was working prior to extension starting.

now the messy part is my builder used my plumber and his plumber in the extension and told me he has nothing to do with it its the plumber fault.

so no it was not tested after extension finished. We’re pretty sure his plumber forgot to cap some pipes.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121117263#Comment_121117263

Can you not cap the pipe where it leaves the boiler or somewhere else you can access the pipes easily instead of digging up the floor? If you can stop water entering the pipe it'd be quicker and easier than trying to find where its leaking.

When I say you I mean your plumber.

Outkast_IRE

Get a quote for the tracer gas leak detection and do that as a first step.

Squatman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121116697#Comment_121116697

you will need to dig nothing out to locate the leak. sounding technology or possible thermal scanning can be used to identify leak location without any invasive surgery