HSE and Hospital Admission Register

Fraoch333

I've been in contact with the HSE regarding my great gran aunt who was born in 1887. She died in hospital in the 1920s following a long stay there.

I understand that her medical records were destroyed long ago, but the hospital admission register for that time still survives. I asked the HSE for her address and next of kin at the time of her admission. She never married, had no children and my great great grandparents died before her she was admitted to hospital. So her next of kin would have been my great grandfather or one of his siblings.

Even though her address and next of kin are in the admission register, the HSE has refused to release this information as, according to them, "it's personal information". I don't understand why an address and family member's name cannot be given to me, as many other freely available records e.g. petty sessions records, deaths records etc contain much more personal information.

I was just wondering if anyone has been in a similar situation and, if so, whether they have had any success in getting information released. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!

pinkypinky

Have you made a specific Freedom of Information request?

Dead people do not have a right to privacy and anyone who was an adult in the 1920s is dead now.

Fraoch333

@pinkypinky Thanks, you're absolutely right, whoever was listed as her next of kin in the register is long dead by now, so I really don't get the secrecy about them or the address.

When I rang the HSE to find out about getting information in relation to my great gran aunt, I was told to forward on her details, proof of my relationship to her and my photo id. I sent all that documentation to the HSE and asked for the information regarding her address and next of kin. I didn't specify in my email that I was making the request under FOI. Maybe that's what I need to do next.

Hermy

When I applied for my non-identifying information, prior to the enactment of the new adoption and tracing legislation, my parents address, the address I grew up in, was redacted.

Recently, a local council office tried to refuse me access to their electoral register on spurious grounds.

And a while ago a county librarian told me I couldn't view an old burial register because of GDPR.

I fully accept the need to respect other peoples privacy but the arbitrary way in which some public servants go about achieving this can be very frustrating.

pinkypinky

I think it's worth trying again using FOI.

It does seem like some civil servants understand things different. My grandmother's death certificate has 2 incorrect details. One is her age and the other is an obvious admin error where it says her death was registered in Tralee, Co. Meath. Presumably the wrong dropdown was selected and not noticed. When I queried how to get these items rectified, I was told an affadavit was required from all my grandmother's living children or the age couldn't be changed. I said surely you can just check this against her birth certificate but no. For various reasons, such a process wasn't possible for the family. Later, another person told me that information was not right.

The wide misunderstanding of GDPR is also a problem.

Lime Tree Farm

Like David Walliams in Little Britain, "the computer says no".

Fraoch333

Sorry if this ends up being a double post. The reply I posted a little while ago seems to have disappeared.

Thanks @Hermy With the new adoption and tracing legislation, I hope you have received your full information. I've heard mixed reactions in relation to what was provided.

Like you I respect people's right to privacy, but sometimes it's hard to understand the thinking behind the decisions that are made. Hopefully in the end you did get access to the electoral and burial records. They are such a great source of information.

Thanks @pinkypinky I would have presumed the GRO would be keen to correct mistakes in records. But from your experience with your grandmother's death certificate, it seems like the process of making amendments hasn't been made as straightforward as possible.

I'll definitely apply for the information again, this time under FOI

Thanks @Lime Tree Farm That's exactly what it feels like. You gave me a good laugh!

Now I wonder what kind of information will be available to family researchers in the future. I have very helpful information, regarding a non direct relative, from an early 1900s hospital admission register. Yet a friend who contacted the hospital that her grandmother died in during the 1970s, was told that all records, including admission and discharge dates, were destroyed after seven years. Such a pity.

cobham

After many years of research and getting marriage certs for other people, I decided to get my own only to find that my name was incorrect! We seem to have managed with passport, mortgage/house purchase without the official bit of paper for over 30 yrs. I had used a copy of the church record when requested. I had to get a solicitor/legal bit of paper signed to have it corrected. My husband's birth record is incorrect as well tho he has a certified copy that is correct. His mother must have pursued it at the time but the official record not changed. My brother was supposed to have been the heaviest baby born that year for Holles Street and I was quite a lump as well. But on enquiry I was told such records were not kept. Sometimes you have to wonder if it is easier to say 'no' like the film Philomena that showed the records of children born in the home were being destroyed out back when she was calling to the front door.

Fraoch333

@cobham It's amazing the amount of records that are incorrect. You did well to get through all those events before getting the record corrected! One of my relations was born in a hospital that didn't routinely record babies' first names. He didn't know he could have his name added to the record, so throughout his life he'd produce his baptismal certificate along with his birth certificate.

Such a pity the records for Holles Street weren't kept, that would be a fun record to have. I remember newspapers having photos of the first babies born in the year. Wonder if they ever had anything about the heaviest babies.

I'm sure a lot of records were deliberately destroyed to make things easier for certain people. Having said that, I've come across quite a few archivists who have been so informative, helpful and encouraging. Luck of the draw I suppose.

Hermy

With the new adoption and tracing legislation, I hope you have received your full information. I've heard mixed reactions in relation to what was provided.

Like you I respect people's right to privacy, but sometimes it's hard to understand the thinking behind the decisions that are made. Hopefully in the end you did get access to the electoral and burial records. They are such a great source of information.

I was generally very happy with the information I received under the new adoption and tracing legislation but what mattered most was government finally recognising my right to access that information if I so wished.

As to the other items, thankfully the archivist had no issue with me viewing the burial register, and I did get to view the electoral register but was made to feel very uncomfortable doing so which is something I've been meaning to raise with that council office since.

cobham

I have had relatives working for big estates and in both cases records were destroyed by water damage, one as a result of a fire and the other by flooding. In the UK there was the destruction during WW2 of the WW1 service records. A pity..... so yes a matter of luck what survives and what can be accessed ie that records are properly filed/stored. As we progress with digital records of everything, one wonders how paper documents will be treated in the future?

Fraoch333

@Hermy It's great to hear you were happy with the information provided to you. Thankfully the long overdue decision to allow the right to access information finally came through.

@cobham Oh it's terrible to think of the loss of all those records! They would have been an absolute gold mine of information.