Kids, Technology & Mental Health

abnormalnorman

Iv had discussions this week alone with 3 different parents , telling me of the trouble they are having with their teens (topic not raised by me), the majority of which seem to stim from the use of ipads, phones etc. The arguments they refer to are not insignificant, some of which extend to very bad name calling , and some even slightly physical.

I have very young kids myself, and can already see this pattern emerge, where no matter what else (fun activity or whatever) you are doing with your child, nothing will match the treat of giving them the ipad for a half hour. And the arguments / disruption being caused when you don't give it , or try to take it back.

It has made parenting extremely difficult, kids very disruptive / aggressive , and i believe is the main cause of the mental health issues being experienced in teens these days.

Is this all I have to look forward to when my kids turn teen??

Fair enough , its up to the parents to monitor. So , say i don't allow/give limited screen time to my child (7 year old)- that's fine until they go on a play date with the buddy, who happens to be emerged in screens, then comes home like a ragin bull wondering why their house is not the same!

From what I see, every parent is having the same problems, and every parent is talking about it, but is anyone going to do anything about it???

Surly we cant let our youth be led by the likes of this guy?:

Mark Zuckerberg says virtual reality is better than the ‘limited’ real world | The Independent | The Independent

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-10573907/Mark-Zuckerberg-claims-live-metaverse-future.html

Shouldn't our government step in?

How is it working out in China does anyone know?:

https://techhq.com/2023/08/who-should-set-screen-time-limits-for-children-china-chinese-government/#:~:text=China%20is%20about%20to%20make,a%20day%20on%20their%20smartphones.

It just really seems bizarre that this problem is so huge and so evident, but no one has the power to control.

Jim_Hodge

So you want the government to act instead of you controlling or monitoring your child's usage. Blaming exposure when in a play date is a bit lame TBH. Your home, your child, your screen time rules.

NIMAN

Its definitely a huge problem. I know when I was a teen, many moons ago, I too was into computer gaming and would have spent a lot of time on them, but it's different these days. I was also doing the usual 'other' stuff of heading out to play football, ride around on bikes etc. Now it seems kids can have fun unless it involves screens.

Unfortunately it looks like the horse has already bolted, as it is everywhere now. I see kids of 18 months or so, with a tablet handed to them to keep them occupied, simply because mum and dad are on screens too. Some seem to be getting rared by technology, or YouTube.

It's a difficult situation, but I think it's important to try to continue doing normal, outdoor activities with your kids for as long as you can, and allow them limited screen time. I was glad to see school restart again, because with the terrible weather we had for July and August, it was hard to say no to them when they asked to go online.

abnormalnorman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055842#Comment_121055842

well from what im hearing from parents of teens, they have been controlling it and monitoring it as much as possibly, but it appears to be just taking over / consuming the whole household when kids reach teens- when are they allowed it, how come others are allowed it etc etc. i am controlling it and monitoring it, but from what I hear its impossible once they reach mid teens. Why should something like this cause so much trouble / conflict within a household.

TedBundysDriver

The problem is so massive and daunting it's hard to know where to start. I know of one very sad case in particular where the parents took the phone off their 14 year old daughter and the child attempted to take their own life that very evening. The girl is now in a wheelchair for the rest of her life. We ourselves have had massive battles with our 16 year old over the last few years since she got a phone at 13 to try and get her to reduce screen time. We both have gotten rid of our own smartphones in an attempt to show them it can be done but by christ it's hard as a smartphone is increasingly needed for daily life in so many ways it's almost impossible to bank without one for instance.

One thing is for sure and that's kids lives are so much worse for them compared to when the previous generation grew up.

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055842#Comment_121055842

It's not that easy.

There is immense pressure from everywhere to be online and use social networks.

There are a few primary schools around the country advocating for no smart phones for primary school kids. Which is an excellent start. I think they are being banned in Dutch schools. So, they are well ahead of the "sure it'll be grand" attitude here. I despise our indifference here.

Most parents don't really care and let the kids be brought up by social media. It's free baby sitting until it isn't.

The parents also suffer from the same problems/addictions to social networks etc etc but they can at least existed in a time before this was a problem.

Also, kids get outcast by their peers if they are not immediately available on social media/messaging.

We've let the genie out of the bottle. It's like smoking or alcohol, but in my opinion it's a lot more insidious and harming to society.

I have first hand experience of the devastation this can cause to a child. And not a child that was addicted to social media and a child who did not have a phone until they were 13, etc, but someone who affected by all the crap and groupthink because it was all around them. So, I take no prisoners and absolutely despise the social media companies.

abnormalnorman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121055938#Comment_121055938

Thanks SuperBowserWorld - your feelings are mutual regarding the social media companies. As the other comments have also suggested, it is a huge huge problem. And i think has even enlarged over just the last few months after such a bad summer!

So surely something has to be done , from a higher authority, as from what im hearing from respectable, hard working , educated parents, they are unable to control it and it is causing immense disruption, friction and beyond in all households . How come all these people are talking about it , and nothing being done? Drugs are also a problem amongst our youth, but at least there illegal!!!

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056004#Comment_121056004

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/education/2023/07/13/no-smartphone-policy-for-primary-students-could-be-extended-to-all-schools-says-minister-for-education/

‘No smartphone’ policy for primary students could be extended to all schools, says Minister for Education

I think that would be a brave and correct thing to do and would show actual leadership.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/04/mobile-phones-other-devices-to-be-banned-from-dutch-classrooms

Now, you'll have people on saying sure it does no harm yada yada yada .. when really they mean "it did no harm to my kids, I'm all right jack" or they don't have kids. Or there kids has immense mental health issues and they haven't noticed or cared. Or there kid is an absolute bully on social media and thrives in the environment.

NIMAN

Smart phones in primary school!

It isn't a big thing at my local AFAIK , but there should be an outright ban if it is happening. If kids want to buy their primary school child a phone, that's their call, but them appearing in primary schools only make them attractive to other kids. Why exactly would a child of 11 or under need a phone at school?

I only got my oldest a phone on starting secondary school because I was told it was necessary for Google classroom. Otherwise one would not have been bought. But in 1 year I can already see how much it has become an addiction. Surely schools could do without them until 16?

abnormalnorman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056131#Comment_121056131

Well that's great to see. Hopefully will be fully rolled out everywhere shortly. I think anyone who doesn't see this as a huge huge problem either has no kids, or is a completely useless parent!!

abnormalnorman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056317#Comment_121056317

But I suppose it still leaves the problem in the household. I still think there is 100% call for this asap - wonder if it will actually come in to play in China:

https://techhq.com/2023/08/who-should-set-screen-time-limits-for-children-china-chinese-government/#:~:text=China%20is%20about%20to%20make,a%20day%20on%20their%20smartphones.

abnormalnorman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121056316#Comment_121056316

yes I agree. my friends family were the same, had 3 kids & no phones / ipads between them, but were made get a phone by the teachers when the oldest went into secondary school. Then an ipad followed shortly after for homework. and things have spiraled since - where they are all slowly getting addicted to screen

realitykeeper

I predict more children will be born with Downes Syndrome and autism in the coming years. The reason is because people are being forced to postpone starting a family until they are middle aged, due to the housing crisis.

If only the government would remove the 200 billion euro stimulus it has injected into existing housing stock since 2008 and let house prices return to their unmanipulated level, then people could start a family now. Otherwise, this explosion in special needs is only a matter of time.

Princess Calla

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095531#Comment_121095531

I doubt more kids will be born with DS.

Testing is available and abortions are much easier now than before.

I can see anyone that availed of the testing, or at least a high %, also availing of the abortion.

I've no desire to debate the rights or wrongs of this, it's just how I see things going.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095531#Comment_121095531

A bit off the wall and, dare I say it, far removed from kids using technology.

Everlong1

Government is not unaware of the problem. The below is a Government funded website promoting healthy eating for kids which includes screen time advice.

https://www.safefood.net/start/reducing-screen-time

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121096122#Comment_121096122

Ah but that is where you are wrong. The prospect of robots looking after our elderly is now on the horizon and it is safe to assume the same for kids with disabilities. Yes kids with disabilities will have plenty of use for technology. It can monitor their breathing, smooth them, administrator their medication and perhaps - as for the elderly, change their nappies.

But yes, more kids with disabilities are the future. How could they not. This phenomenon of delayed parenthood will have consequences.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121096190#Comment_121096190

Tenuous at best and entirely absent from your rant at housing issues.

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121096205#Comment_121096205

Hardly tenuous and very true. I concede the intention of the OP was kids learning coding and the like but sure intentions elsewhere may be the reason a lot of kids will end using technology in a way we wouldn't wish on anyone.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121096916#Comment_121096916

You've lost me completely. We'll leave it at that.

realitykeeper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121097132#Comment_121097132

Gladly.

taxAHcruel

I have kids 13 and 9 and two under 6. My own children have access to screens of this sort but barely use them really. I find it difficult to relate to the OPs claiming therefore "no matter what else (fun activity or whatever) you are doing with your child, nothing will match the treat of giving them the ipad for a half hour". I have found the opposite is true.

I have been teaching my children various forms of martial arts since they were able to walk. I engaged with them on various science based pursuits since they could talk well. They meditate.

They will/were gutting fish and rabbit at 10ish. They will/were firing rifles and bows since they were 8ish. They will/could write a plug since they were 6ish. They will/could engage in various basic self defense or eye gouging or similar since they were 4ish. And many other things along the timeline besides like basic cooking and mini farming and care for animals.

I remember one evening where my kids and I sat around a flower flowering under a light. It was one of those flowers that flower so fast you can watch it struggle open in real time. They watched in joy and awe and full attention for over an hour. Rapt.

We did "windowing" on chicken eggs where you cut a hole in an egg and cover it with transparent material and then using magnification watch the embryo grow into a chick. They did this every single morning - jumping out of bed to run down and see that days progress.

We went another time around junk yard / dumps / repair shops and Buy and Sell magazines and collected a number of old discarded damaged bikes. We stripped them all down - cleaned the individual parts down - and built two fully working bikes from the left overs - painted them and put our own emblem on them - which took us weeks of work and we loved it. Full concentration and attention span and feeling of achievements and life skills.

And on and on and on. Above all the one thing our babies and toddlers and little kids want from us is our time. It is better than any gift or toy or tool. If a parent puts in the effort and time to engage in activities with children I believe the iPhone can not compete really. When my kids friends come over to our house we put their phones in a drawer inside the front door and we engage with them. How is it then that of all the houses these kids could go to - it's ours they always want to keep coming back to? Should it not be the houses where they are let sit around all on their phones if the OPs thesis is true?

But the work. Is. Hard. And giving them a screen. Is. Easy. And that's often the real issue.

I am also not sure I can relate to the statement "It has made parenting extremely difficult, kids very disruptive / aggressive". Parenting has always been difficult and children have always had an element of aggression and disruption that we as parents have to curb and channel - and ultimately teach the child how to control themselves as they grow and mature. Inside the door of my house we have "Discipline equals Freedom" as a plaque on the wall and it's a life lesson we live by and it is a short sentence that has a number of meanings and interpretations to us.

So the existence of Tech and phone screens would in that light be just the latest thing to blame for these issues - rather than be an actual cause of it. Even when the written word came to be - people had similar concerns. Plato if I remember correctly was concerned that reliance on written texts would lead to forgetfulness and laziness in learning. I think John Locke and Jean-Jacques Rousseau had similar issues. And if I recall Horace Mann also was concerned reading fiction would cause people to detach from reality.

All that is not to say it is not a genuine issue and one that is going to be challenging to parents. I just think it is useful to distinguish between the issues technology are actually causing - and issues where technology is just the latest incarnation of parenting issues that have always been and probably always will be. Issues that will compound and grow if a parent is unwilling - or in this modern age simply unable - to put the requisite effort into parenting.

As children grow they learn boundaries and behaviors. They act out and test the waters so that they can learn proper conduct and discipline. They start out overwhelmed by their emotions where the simplest thing washes them in emotions that they can barely understand let alone control. They have no concept of time or moderation as children. And as they grow they learn to control their behaviors and emotional responses under our guidance as parents. We know well the comical sight of a toddler who when the smallest thing goes wrong they look like their entire world has ended and imploded - such is the power of their emotions over them. At that age it is funny and cute and sweet. In a teenager not so much. It's quite disgusting and repellent.

If anything therefore - the issue of screens and tech is not one of children but of parents. Because if instead of putting in the hard work of guiding our children through such times we reach for the screens to placate them the easy way - then the children will never learn these basic life skills. When I see a child in a buggy in the supermarket - barely a toddler - staring at a pad because the parents wants to keep them quiet as they get the shopping done then this is not a problem of tech. It's a problem of a parent taking the easy way out and taking their first steps down a long road where they are very slowly but very steadily making their own bed of nails to lie on in 10 years.

To take some quotes from the OP if my children were coming home engaging in "bad name calling" and "physical" altercations in the home and engaging in "arguments / disruption" or coming home "like a ragin bull" showing no respect at all or acting out when I told them it was time to stop one activity and start another - then I would not be blaming Technology.

I would be pointing my finger very firmly in the nearest mirror and asking myself where I have gone wrong and where I can improve and do better for them. Because in that scenario I would be failing them.

dickdasr1234

Possible the best post ever, anywhere. Bang on the money, articulate and informed.

What the ☆☆☆☆ are you doing on the Internet?

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121103511#Comment_121103511

Beautiful parenting, leadership and an amazing post. Thanks so much for that.

realitykeeper

I see today's Indo says "Cost of living crisis is making couples dalay having children."

So I was right. In future, there will be a higher incidence of autism and Downes Syndrome as a consequence of the housing crisis.