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Fertilizer register

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  • 28-07-2023 4:54pm
    #1
    Posts: 0 ✭✭


    Anyone know all the ins n outs of this new register. Tried making sense of it on the dept website last night but couldn't. Will it curtail what we buy etc, will it be part of inspections. There's a sign up on agfood, is this mandatory to signup or what.



Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,021 ✭✭✭alps


    Mandatory. From 1st Sept you'll have to register as a buyer/user of fertiliser, and from 15th Sept you'll have a month to declare your closing stocks on the 15th.

    You'll have nothing further to do other than once a year you'll have to declare your closing stocks of the 15/9.

    When you purchase fertiliser, you give your herd number to the merchant who registers your purchases onnyhe database.

    Currently we have limits to the amount of fertiliser we can use. The fertiliser database won't affect these limits.

    Farmers who buy direct from NI or elsewhere abroad will have seperate entries to complete.

    At the moment, derogation farmers have to return a fertiliser usage form with receipts anually. This will simplify that return.

    I know....the next thing people will ask....how do we get around that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭green daries


    Well... .........how do we get around this 🤔 👀 😏



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,678 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Put in a "Pitch and putt course" dont draw down any sfp , their allowed to buy fertilizer no bother and afaik theirs no limits on what they can put out



  • Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭3 the square


    Hard to see how they can keep track of the fertiliser coming across from the North start checking trucks etc isn't going to happen



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,678 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Theirs going to a great opertiunity for lads that do bulk spreading and maybe run a lorry our two at bulk haulage near the border regions bringing in bulk loads and spreading for lads and for arguements sake invoicing it as meal etc will be a nice margin to be made, even in the case of merchants that might switch to handing more bulk fertilizer if a department inspector rocks in and looks into a shed with 1000 ton of fertilizer piled in on paper, their could be 200-300 hundred ton extra maybe not accounted for how can he prove it, its impossible to police



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭Wildsurfer


    Are lads buying so much above their allowance that this will be a problem?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,506 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Won't be a problem there unless they are really a crap farmer that has to resort to that.

    It will really impact the organic farmer that wasn't really organic though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭grange mac


    Yip organic farmer could have an issue... But who knows.

    Seem 9 month old organic Charolais 440kg in Mart Fri ... Some cattle... Some thrive on organic grass and organic nuts 🤣🤣🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,866 ✭✭✭mf240


    Where would you find out what the limit is. Id guess im well under but what is the allowance?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,772 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    Ive a smallholding and occasionally get a bag or 2 of gran lime. Looks like I'll have to stock up in August for a few years



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭893bet


    I did my Scep weighing yesterday and have 2 bulls born last week sep and first week oct that weight 450 and 435.

    Not been fed and grass organic! Now is suspect they would prob be 420kg in the mart rather the live weight but an ounce of breeding over a tonne of feeding.


    I doubt lads are feeding non organic meal. The risk vs reward is terrible.

    I can undestand someone chancing a few bags as it’s spread and gone.

    But having non organic meal around if you were inspected it’s day day to your licence.



  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭1848


    Promoting this type of attitude is what has got us to where we are. Every farmer needs to know how much they are allowed. Spread lime where it is required, apply slurry on low index fields & silage ground. Ensure that phosphate goes only on fields that need it. Better for farmers’ pockets, improved water quality. ‘Win, win’ for everyone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭green daries


    👀👀👀😱😱😱😱😱such things don't happen In good ould eire surly........say it ain't so



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭green daries


    P and k will be the biggest issue here I need little and often here on my ground......its just the way it is. can or Urea straight just won't do it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭green daries




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,190 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,382 ✭✭✭tractorporn


    There's heaps of lads feeding non organic meal. Even boasting about it in WhatsApp groups. Most is bought for cash and can't be traced and very hard for the inspector to prove unless they catch someone in the actual act of feeding it. The OCBs won't have access to the register so it won't actually be able to be policed either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭893bet


    Jesus, bought for cash so can’t through the books aswell, to feed cattle that sale price does go through books. Sounds a zero sum or a loss making game to me. I guess if they are not paying tax then paying cash makes no difference.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭Injuryprone


    I might be wrong but around here when a rep would say "buy it for cash", it would just mean that there would be no name on the docket, just "cash sale". You could still pay for it by cheque and docket could still be given to accountant even though your name isn't on it. Dept have no access to your financial accounts only what you voluntarily give them.

    Talking to a man last week who wouldn't be far off, and he said that there is the world of stuff been being bought on the sly. Surprised me to be honest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,460 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    Is a name not meant to go on a docket for any feed for livestock.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭893bet


    That makes some sense but still the risk v reward…….. I was at an AeTS last year and heard the story of a lad getting caught at that in year 3/4 and payments getting clawed back. I assume it’s the exception rather than the rule.

    I went organic to stop feeding the meal due to the hassle of it. Only problem I see with autumn calving sucklers is the need for the odd cow to get a shake if she is a little light as a heifer or a calf is double sucking. Hoping to get a tonne of organic oats from someone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭smallbeef


    Where can I see how many units/kgs of N, P & K I can spread yearly? Is there a generic amount of each per ha or how is it calculated? I'd be well below any limits but still would like to know.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,901 ✭✭✭amacca


    🤣🤣 if I'm putting in a pitch and putt I won't stop there, twill be a 18 hole parkland course seeped in chemicals and knee deep in fertiliser!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭mr.stonewall


    That correct. Miller's and merchants are the ones in bother with this.

    After the fertiliser register I can see the Dept having a feed register. This will be how they will deal with the protein content for nitrates and also for the P allowance coming from meal



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,594 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Farmer A has 100 cattle and rents 50 acres from his retired neighbour for silage. He spreads slurry on the 50 acres and buys chemical fertiliser for it as well.

    Farmer B has 100 cattle and buys silage on the flat off 50 acres from his retired neighbour. He exports slurry back to the 50 acres and the neighbour buys and spreads the chemical fertiliser.


    In one scenario, the farmer is going to have hassle via the fertiliser register? In the other he won't? Even though production and land used is the same in both?



  • Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭zetor 4911


    If Farmer A has declared the lands (50 acres) on his BISS application then there is no issue. But if the retired farmer has declared it then there is an issue as he (the retired farmer) is not in control of the lands and therefore should not be declaring it on his BISS application. This go back to the active farmer status issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,594 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    The point was in relation to the N/P/K usage on the farms. Not entitlements or BISS

    In both cases, there will be the same amount produced by the animals. In both cases, this will be calculated over the same area. But in farmer B's case, he won't have anything on the fertiliser register. (The retired neighbour will though)



  • Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭zetor 4911


    Farmer B is selling a crop of the field the same as if selling a crop of barley so if fertiliser is applied to this crop then that fertiliser should go on the register of the farmer selling the crop not the farmer buying the crop it is different if the land is rented to farmer A then the fertiliser should goes onto the register of farmer A



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,594 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    That is the point. Buying in meal puts up your P. I don't think buying in grass puts up your N

    What you didn't seem to read between the lines is that what I said above could be used by some farmers to reduce their entry to the fertiliser register if if is going to cause them trouble.......................



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  • Registered Users Posts: 425 ✭✭zetor 4911


    If farmer B is buying the fertiliser and then selling the crop to farmer A then this is 100% the correct way to do it farmer A is doing nothing to circumvent the new register regulations in this case.



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