Flirty texts, not sexting but definitely flirty

Katgurl

Hi,

I am with my partner 7 years. It hasn't been easy; blended and extended family complications, physical and mental health, career issues.

However we have battled on and I thought we were very committed to each other. With all the external problems causing mayhem it was hard to see how 'we' were ourselves if that makes sense. We have a child together who is five and plan to get married next year.

We both agreed things between us need a lot of work and we have been in therapy since the beginning of the year. I thought it was going really well, that we were finally communicating openly with each other.

He doesn't have friends in the way that I do; he would never phone someone for a chat or to meet up for a drink. However he has lots of hobbies and sports people and he chats into the group chats.

He was focusing exclusively on one hobby and everything else; me, our child, work, other sports were taking a back seat with him becoming completely irate if he couldn't attend.

As we are very close (I thought) I asked him honestly if there was a woman there be was interested in. He said absolutely not. I believed him!

I'm sure you've figured out where this is going. I used his phone for something and a message flashed up. I scrolled back and saw messages going back months from this 'friend' he has never mentioned. They are very flirty and they meet up regularly for this spirit despite not being partners or on the same level. The timings line up with him being furious if he couldn't get there, had a row with me or wasn't pushed about spending time with me that I put down to him being stressed or whatever.

She's married. She's phoned to assure me that nothing has ever happened between them and they have never met up outside of the hobby. He says the same.

As it happens I believe this but I'm gutted. I feel the therapy was just a sham because at a time when we should have been doing our absolute best he was massaging his ego elsewhere. I don't think it bodes well for the future that if we have problems (which we did) that instead of trying to fix them we load on some more.

He's done everything I've asked and is deeply apologetic. He has said it was completely harmless from his end but is so sorry it hurt me.

I feel totally detached from him now but don't know if I'm massively over (or under) reacting.

We are sleeping in separate rooms and I just want to call it a day now.

YellowLead

It definitely doesn’t look good I’m not going to lie.

One thing I would say is that you appear to think you are a strong couple, and it’s only external things causing the issues. But every couple gets tested. Fair, some more than others, but there always potential for life to go belly up - it’s how you deal with this as a couple that counts.

So it’s not the fault of illness etc. All the therapy in the world won’t matter if you both aren’t committed. You sound like you are desperate to make things work, but is he??? If so, how does he show this?

TheadoreT

That must have been a crap thing to see. I'm not sure dwelling on whether you're over or under reacting should be a concern. You're feeling what you're feeling due to his breach of trust. It's not like it's something irrational.

It's healthy he has his own interests and hasn't lost his identity in the relationship. Its difficult to tell if he's completely consumed by it or if you want all of his time. When you say you were 'taking a back seat' were you spending no quality time together at the expense of this hobby or just less than you ideally wanted?

Do you have an example of the flirting? That would give a better indication if it was an emotional affair(or more) or just platonic friendship. Either way him not telling you about her is shady and unfair, and if your mind was to run away with doubts it's perfectly justified due to his behaviour. Did her spouse know about him?

Furze99

Look but don't touch is as good a line as any, but he seems to have crossed this a bit. In his mind anyway, even if not physically.

So you'll just have to decide if it's worth it or will it crop up again after you're married etc.

Katgurl

Thanks for the replies. They've left me feeling quite deflated, i suppose on some level I was hoping someone would say "you're being silly, it was only messaging"

I'll try to answer some of the PP's queries -

In terms of being committed, it's him who is and was adamant he doesn't want the relationship to end. Our therapist has said she has always felt I'm a little disconnected (she said it's normal when you've arrived in therapy after being hurt to protect yourself) while he fully embraces us and our lives together.

I don't think we were a strong couple, I think we had a lot of problems - hence the therapy - but a third party was never a worry.

The external factors were really big ones and came thick and fast. They started right from the beginning of our relationship so it felt like we never got solid foundations in place.

This year is the first time our lives seem to not be lurching from one crisis to the next and my hope with the therapy was that we could build something great between us and start to understand each other properly. It felt like it was a real chance for us to start something great

It's a massive kick in the guts that he chose this time to start a flirtation with this secret friend of his.

Regarding the type of flirting it was nothing graphic but that was not his style with me when we started dating either; there was a lot of flattery, suggestive innuendo, references to each others bodies, attention, effort to impress her. They read exactly how our messages did the first few months we were together. To be fair she instigated the suggestive conversations but he did run with it and then after some time he was the one instigating.

When I say he didn't have time for me, we have very busy lives and a lot of demands. He was prioritising this hobby (her I guess) and I found it strange but it makes sense now.

The therapist looked at the texts and the conclusion is that he has crossed a line and that it would require a lot of hard work to move past this.

I can't see a good option. Stay and pretend it never happened because I can't be bothered unraveling our lives but die a bit inside knowing I'm faking it. Stay but don't pretend and spend our relationship policing his interactions and checking up on him; this is a hard no from me. Leave and get to grips with being a single mum and potentially in a while regret it and wished I'd at least tried to see if things could work.

In his defence he is extremely sorry, he held his hands up immediately and said he will do whatever I need to resolve it. He messaged her and then gave me his phone so that I could read her response (she said "what? Why is she upset?") and then she called me herself but was just adamant nothing had happened between them and she's a flirty person who often messages people at midnight or first thing in the morning.

I feel very very distant from him. It's like I can't even be bothered to feel upset or anything, I just feel done with him.

If things were bad between us I would feel that this is a wake up call or if they were great I might think we were complacent. But he started things up when we were apparently trying to improve things.

TheadoreT

The bodies chat is massively overstepping the mark for sure.

It's sounds to me like he wanted a bit of an ego stroke as he may be lacking it in his relationship. This hobby and girl seem like a bit of escapism from the emotional disconnection you mention. If he does indeed care for you as much as you say, that would have to take its toll over time on his confidence and well being.

That's not condoning his actions but if you're disconnected and he's rubbish at communication it doesn't exactly lend itself to a healthy relationship, and you're probably not all that compatible.

For the kids sake it's definitely preferable to try find happiness apart than be miserable together. People use it as an excuse to stay together but it's proven its the worst thing to do for their development.

Katgurl

Thanks TheodoreT.

He was definitely having his ego stroked. There has also been an absence of fun, flirting and actually intimacy in our relationship.

I was very ill (I didn't know if I would survive) three years ago and it made that side of things very stressful. Our therapist suggested we take intercourse off the table for a few months to take the pressure off and try to inject closeness back into things without any expectation.

It was around this time that the flirtation began. It's made me feel at sea - I thought we were doing something together while he was off doing his own thing.

The irony is that when I discovered the messages we were on a minibreak I'd booked for us, I was just back from the beauticians and the whole idea (from my pov) was to get us back on track. I stupidly thought we had been making great progress.

On the way down he was messaging her organising their next meetup for 'special training' (vomit) and ignoring me in the car, I was feeling frustrated that he wasn't chatting or anything.

I feel stuck now in my mind. It's been over a month and I don't feel any different, just completely done with him and distant from him. I haven't been able to bear any sort of physical touch from him and I love having the bedroom to myself yet I don't feel any strong feelings of jealousy or anger or hurt. I can't seem to summon the energy to move things along to the next level of actually dividing up the assets and getting on with mediation.

LambshankRedemption

You really don't want to hear this but..

I was trying to print out my tax return but my laptop was refusing to connect to the printer, so I put it on a USB stick, and plugged it into my ex-girlfriends laptop which was unlocked on the coffee table. In the process of going to print it, a messenger window popped up and I read some flirty messages some of them very graphic.

Long story short, she lives with him now.

The wife of a friend of mine is a psychiatrist. She told me emotional cheating hurts much worse than physical cheating. I can attest to that.

Im really sorry. I know it wasn't what you wanted to hear, but I thought you might at least appreciate some similar experience.

Katgurl

@LambshankRedemption no I really do want to hear this. I nearly need to keep reminding myself that it's bad because it would be so tempting to just drift on with him (he is adamant he doesn't want us to part) on the justification that 'it was only messages'.

The thing for me it's not what he was doing with her but the fact he was not honestly working on things with me.

He is not in touch with her now and coincidentally she was already leaving the country two weeks after I found the messages.

Tell me this if you don't mind - what happened after the messages? Did you finish with her or did things limp along for a while?

marilynrr

I wouldn't be able to get past this. Without trust there's nothing.

I wouldn't see it as harmless at all because we've all had flirty dynamics etc with people (when single) and we know what they involve, a bond, happiness when we see them/talk to them, private jokes and so on. They can be the type of relationship that is easily forgotten by the people involved and largely insignificant and the bond falls away easily, but cause a lot of harm to the partners.

I'd be so hurt that he shared that with another woman while with me.

Of course the fact that he did it while you were in therapy of course makes it feel like a sham, how can you fully focus on the work to be done if you have a little thing on the side making you happy/feeding your ego. How can you know if the relationship/upcoming marriage will make you happy if you're also giving and getting attention elsewhere? A lot of relationships manage to keep ticking along because of a little affair/emotional affair/this kind of thing in the background, but take all that dopamine away that they're getting from the other person enough and then is the relationship/marriage enough to make them happy?

The therapist looked at the texts and the conclusion is that he has crossed a line and that it would require a lot of hard work to move past this.

The thing about this is that it's the betrayed person who has the hardest work to do.

i suppose on some level I was hoping someone would say "you're being silly, it was only messaging"

Lots of people would stay after messaging.I'm sure you know plenty of couples where one or the other has done this but they've tried to put it behind them and you'd never know that anything had happened. Whether they can completely trust and forgive is another story and only they know.

It's very individual. I'm definitely on the other side where I know I couldn't make it work because I don't deal with hurt and betrayal well.

I can't see a good option. Stay and pretend it never happened because I can't be bothered unraveling our lives but die a bit inside knowing I'm faking it. Stay but don't pretend and spend our relationship policing his interactions and checking up on him; this is a hard no from me. Leave and get to grips with being a single mum and potentially in a while regret it and wished I'd at least tried to see if things could work.

When did you find out? It sounds like it's fresh and you might be a bit numb. You don't need to decide anything right now. Things should hopefully become clearer to you about whether you think you will be able to get past it or not.

Purple Mountain

I'm really sorry to hear this.

It sounds really hurtful and disrespectful.

I remember the time I was cheated on in a LTR, the only time I know of someone cheating on me!

I knew it was going on, under my nose but I took his phone to confirm it (I know I'll be hated for that but he was denying it to my face despite multiple evidence)

The punch in the gut I felt to see the text thread between them.

Like was said above, the emotional and flirty stuff hurt as bad as knowing about the physical stuff.

I walked out of his life that day.

But we didn't have a marriage or child so I'm not comparing myself to you, just to reassure you, you are absolutely not over reacting.

These feelings, and given the timing of when it happened, are very valid.

One thing I will say..shame on that woman.

She's a flirty person, texts people late at night/first thing in morning 😏

No excuse. She's married. Your partner is committed. She sounds like a horrible woman. How dare she.

I'm genuinely sorry for you and if you were my friend in real life, I'd tell you not to do yourself down. You have been wronged.

My advice would be: you have been great to stick with the couple counselling and fair play to you both for trying it.

But I think a few sessions with a therapist on your own would be a good idea.

You need to reclaim your own worth and your sense of self before you can make any decisions about your future as a couple.

You are not over-reacting, he got obsessed with the “hobby woman”, he got fixated on her, probably not in a healthy way either. As you have a child together be especially wary not to let the them feel they are in any way part of the issue. People can be very fickle, and you have every right to be bitter and angry.

Big Bag of Chips

I hope I'm wrong, OP, but I'd honestly find it very difficult to believe that nothing physical has happened between them. 2 (married/almost married) people who aren't physically interested in each other would not be sending flirty, suggestive texts. And they've had plenty of alone time to cross that line. I would take very little comfort from the fact she rang you to tell you nothing was going on. She was hardly likely to say anything else.

The two of them have all the signs of damage control. Admit to the bare minimum. Admit to what you know for definite and deny anything else.

They don't play the sport together. They are at different levels. There is no reason for them to spend so much time together, coupled with the suggestive texts. He is getting annoyed and angry if his meetings with her are interfered with.

I would be very surprised if this has not already crossed the line into physical cheating.

How is he behaving now? Is he still meeting up with her?

marilynrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120892034#Comment_120892034

Sorry, I hadn't seen this update when I asked how long it had been since you found out.

This makes it sound like it would be even harder to get past, You were trying to get things back on track with the mini break. You don't say what the previous hurt you brought into therapy was that led you to being disconnected, but you were obviously opening yourself up to being vulnerable again in some ways and for you to be on that page while he was on another and you were completely unaware of that well I can see why that would have made you shut down completely when you found out what he was doing.

Again, it could be numbness which could pass, but the last paragraph sounds more like you're just done. Would you go for a few therapy sessions on your own as a previous poster suggested?

Duvet Day

Sorry but I definitely think it was more than texting, what married woman texts a man at midnight and early in the morning that she's only friends with, they're the exact times you'd message someone you're in a relationship with, last thing at night and first thing in the morning.

I've been there OP and it's horrible but there's no getting over it imo, not worth it as you'll always have doubts in the future. I'd leave him tbh, your heart isn't in it at this stage ,you tried but he was obviously doing the opposite, he's a liar and a cheat imo.

Dial Hard

Honestly, OP, and I'm sorry if this comes across as harsh but it sounds as if your relationship has been very rocky from the get-go and in those circumstances I'd be inclined to see this situation as a symptom of that as opposed to some giant out-of-the-blue betrayal. Have you ever actually been happy and at-ease together? It doesn't sound like it. You sound pretty done with this relationship and honestly, I think that's probably for the best.

Katgurl

Oh wow you are all so good to take the time, thank you so much.

Many of these replies really sum up how I feel; it's the timing and knowing I was alone in the working on things as he was having those happy feelings attached to a flirty friendship with a person he was meeting up with. The reality is I am totally and utterly turned off him now.

I am as sure as possible that nothing physical has taken place between them but who knows what would have happened if things hadn't blown up. I didn't mince my words with her; obviously she's not my concern but when she became patronising to me I ran out of patience.

The 'body talk' was all so naff and cringe; I have even bigger muscles than you, I can meet at this time if you're flexible, am I flexible oh let me think about that stupid emoji etc. Loads of that sort of thing. Nothing massively incriminating but completely unnecessary to organise practice times and not like him

Some people just engage like that with the opposite sex always but not him, he's not directly texting anyone else so this is new. All his matches with his actual partner are set up without any chitchat and all other stuff is done in the groups. I know this because he handed over his phone to prove there was nothing more to it all.

You are all correct. My heart isn't in it anymore with him. I'm procrastinating because I don't want to start the next phase of a messy separation.

Neyite

If you had a pretty great relationship all along, and things were otherwise brilliant, I'd suggest you give it another go, but the fact it was on it's last legs anyway and you were doing a last ditch attempt to fix it while all this was going on, I can't see it's worth the added effort from you. While you were working on it & doing the emotional heavy lifting to keep it going, he was basically lobbing grenades into it for kicks.

He was treating you like sh!t whenever his relationship and family life threatened his time with her. That's probably the second worst part.

And now he wants to do "anything" to fix it? Of course he does! He's losing you but has no back up because sod that she is, she's no intention of leaving her husband for him, he's not worth that much to her. He doesn't want to be alone. Here's a question you should ponder - do you think that if she was single or was leaving her marriage, would he be as keen to fix your relationship or would he be off sampling the greener grass?

I think that in situations like this you'll always get that horrible sinking feeling every time you hear his phone ping or any new interest he has. He'd want to be something wonderful in all other ways to work on overcoming that distrust. And he doesn't sound like he's all that to be honest.

As for her and her condescending attitude, reassuring YOU about your relationship, that would irk me. Anyone asking why my relationship ended I'd be naming her, and telling them that she was texting him inappropriately and that she is more than welcome to him.

spaceHopper

I'm sorry this is happening to you. You don't seem to be looking for advice more putting you thoughts on paper.

From what you are saying it's over it's been a month and you still feel the same. But have you asked him why he did it? And was all the therapy just to keep you off his back or did he get anything from it?

Katgurl

I have asked him.

His answers -

It was only tennis, I've loved being in the club, it's not about her

The messages were flirty, I know it was over the line but don't make out it's more than that.

I didn't really think about it or how hurt you would be. If I thought it was such a betrayal I would have worried about you seeing the messages. I will never do it again.

She's friendly like this with everyone.

I didn't think I was doing anything wrong.

Well you never give me any compliments or say anything nice to me.

She has a lovely way about her, she made the club more fun when she recently joined, she's high energy and yes I did notice her when she arrived she's very pretty.

She's not my type at all even if I was single, I don't think she's pretty.

She's not very good at tennis.

She's good at tennis, I enjoyed practicing with her.

You get the picture; basically a load of contradictory statements, some contrite, some ridiculous and some accusatory.

I think he got a lot from therapy for himself; we would go together and separately. There seemed to be neverending focus on his dysfunctional family relationships and reassurance that I was not his opponent and actually on his side. Now I think f**£ you and all the support you got from me when you needed it yet I got your bad moods while someone else is getting your compliments, attention, flattery and encouragement.

From her end I think there was very little in it. It's pretty obvious she loves attention and being the 'flirty friend' to the guys in the club.

The only truthful bit I can see is that he didn't hide the messages, I've always had his password. I wouldn't use it. I only had his phone that day as the TV in the hotel wasn't working and we were chromecasting from his phone while he went for a run. The programme stopped playing, I picked it up to use it and a name I vaguely recognised from a ladies whatsapp group flashed up. I was confused as to why she was flashing up on his phone and I clicked on it. The messages went back months, not daily, flurry every week or fortnight - sometimes he shut it down quickly other times they went on for 48 hours of flirty injokes.

I feel we were advancing down a road. I thought we were together but in fact he was somewhere parallel without me. Now I'm at a total standstill, I literally cannot take another step with him. The absence of caring in any real way is so bizarre to me, I feel totally numb and separate from him.

TheadoreT

You written a lot but not one single positive thing about him as far as I can see. Usually when people are torn they've got a lot of love mixed with hate but you seem somewhere between apathy and hate. His line "Well you never give me any compliments or say anything nice to me" is telling, why are you even together if you can't bring yourselves to fulfilling each others most basic relationship needs?

A lot of people fall asunder with no affection or words of affirmation in a relationship, he seems to require that more than you and the absence of it for so long has driven him to the point of seeking it elsewhere. He went about it all wrong but this end result was inevitable sooner or later.

I think he's generally way more into it than you and was just at his wits end, don't leave the guy begging for something you've not been into for a long time.

Katgurl

@TheadoreT sorry I wrote what he said but not my response (inward or outward) to them.

It's laughable that he would say I don't give him compliments. I never stop telling him he's brilliant, that he's hot, that he's in great shape, that I'm proud of him, passing on nice things that other people say about him, the list goes on. This excuse of his was beyond offensive.

He then responded that I only comment on his body. I said that wasn't true (it's NOT) and then he side tracked me with something else.

It's bullshit excuses and nothing more.

I think what he has been struggling with is me telling him what I need in a relationship if we are going to proceed to marriage.

The therapist said she felt a distance with me, not with the therapy but as if I was wary. I am wary because he has hurt me before (but nothing to do with another woman).

Big Bag of Chips

Does he shower you with compliments? I doubt it from what you said!

His reaction is pretty typical actually. Minimise, excuse, blame.. you, then her, never himself. How would he feel if you were behaving like this with another man? I'm sure he'd be completely fine with it!

I feel very sad for you Katgurl. It's not a nice place to be. But you're right. You were trying. Yes, you were distant and disconnected because you were protecting yourself. But you were trying. You were going to counselling. You were making an effort. You weren't flirting with someone else and rushing out the door to spend time with him. That's where both your efforts are poles apart. He was weak and enjoyed the attention. Usually why most people cheat. You'll be ok. But you've now lost all respect for him. It's hard to come back from that.

Katgurl

Thanks BBOC. Spot on.

Mr Disco

Well you need to be selective with who is giving you advice. Men and women will have different views on the situation

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Warned for breach of charter. Please offer your own advice rather than dismiss the advice of others.

DonnaDarko09

Sorry to read this Katgurl and I was experiencing awful flashbacks from my own experience, while reading yours.

Like you, I was in relationship counselling with my ex. It was after we had our first baby. I pushed for this as I felt distance between us. His focus seemed elsewhere. Long story short, I found messages between him and his other ex (whom he a kid with). Unfortunately while our relationship had suffered following the recent birth of our baby, he had grown closer and more supportive of his other ex.

There are many similarities between what you have wrote and what I experienced unfortunately. The main difference is in my case, my ex couldn’t cut off this other women, given he co parented with her. Perhaps that is the only silver lining I see in your story?

I did leave him but went back to him after he promised me the world.

People on this forum all told me to leave as the trust was gone. I didn’t listen. I still thought I loved him and didn’t want to face raising a child alone. It took years of paranoia (every time the phone pinged) and turned me into someone I didn’t recognise. The trust and love I once felt was gone.

Unless you think you can learn to trust again, I would advise you to leave sooner rather than later. It’s my biggest regret, staying on a few more years afterwards rather than leave with a hell of a lot more dignity as soon as I found out.

As someone else said, an emotional affair is perhaps more hurtful than a physical one. Wishing you all the best.