Interested in promotion to civil service AP- what courses should I undertake?

cheeseandcrackers

Could anyone recommend an online course that would be of benefit when applying for an Assistant Principal post? I have several years management experience but don't have any qualifications in management etc and I think having a course on my application form would help not only my application but in the role

BigElmo

It's all about doing your time. You see, in the civil service, it's not just about qualifications and courses; it's about paying your dues. So, before you even think about applying for that Assistant Principal post, make sure you've perfected the art of nodding and smiling at the higher-ups, mastering the art of making tea for the entire office, and becoming a pro at playing office politics. Trust me, these skills will take you far.

Now, when it comes to courses, if you want to impress those higher-ups, you need to acquire the prestigious D4 accent. This accent is the key to gaining senior management's trust and entering their exclusive circles. So, enroll in a course that teaches you the fine art of sounding posh and refined. Remember, nothing says "civil service material" like a fancy accent.

If you really want to stand out, consider repeating your leaving cert in one of those rugby schools. You know the ones I'm talking about. They'll teach you all the secret handshakes, how to properly sip tea, and, of course, the art of looking down on anyone who didn't attend such esteemed institutions. Just imagine the looks on your colleagues' faces when they discover your posh background!

So, cheeseandcrackers, with a combination of time served, a D4 accent, and a prestigious private school education, you'll be well on your way to AP.

Remember, it's not just about qualifications; it's about fitting into the established mold.

Really though, you can try a management course in the IPA, as well as practising writing and answering your competency examples for your application and interview. Good luck!

Aladdin Sane

If aiming for AP, I would suggest the following courses run by the IPA;

Project Management, Change Management and/or Public Service innovation.

These courses are accredited and the skills and knowledge you will acquire are easily transferable across Departments and grades.

Practical experience will always beat a qualification, but the additional learning shows you have an appetite to develop yourself and go the extra mile.

I would also seek to gain experience in the following areas; risk Management, policy development and business continuity planning.

Hope this is of benefit.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848291#Comment_120848291

Wow, how did you manage to post here from 1989?

AndrewJRenko

OP, can you be more specific about your skills, experience and interests. Do you already have a Level 7 or Level 8 qualification? Are you planning on working in Dublin or outside?

EchoIndia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848291#Comment_120848291

You may be referring to some other sector but the civil service is the opposite of what's described.

billyhead

Anything to do with strategic change and innovation, and policy analysis would be useful.

cheeseandcrackers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120849125#Comment_120849125

I have a level 9 qualification but it doesn't relate to business, management etc. I'm in a managerial role for the past 10 years managing small teams of up to 6 people. I'm ready to move on to an AP position but I'd like to back up my experience with academic training as I feel that I'm lacking in that area. I've also never done a competency based interview or assessment so I need to work at fitting my experience into the correct competency and learning the "lingo". I'd be planning on working outside of Dublin

cheeseandcrackers

Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply. I'll take a look at the IPA and some of the courses that you have recommended.

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848291#Comment_120848291

Absolute nonsense, I started as a CO and worked my way up in CS/PS my accent is about as far from D4 as you can get.

Most competitions are run through PAS so the people that interview you will likely have no real link or idea who you are. look at the competencies and have two good examples for each.

OP, Sounds like you have great experience, if you are being interviewed dig into the people involved backgrounds it can give you a good idea of where questions might go. If you are going to do a course make sure it is relevant, if you are in CS/PS already you might be able to claim back some (or all) of the costs.

TaurenDruid

I can beat gmisk - I started as a CA (they've abolished the grade now!) and worked my way up, too!

Just been on an interview board, where the second-highest person we placed had a Dublin accent thicker than Ronnie Drew's, but they clearly knew their stuff, and are getting an offer. And about one-third of the candidates were "new Irish", so nah, the D4 accent thing is pure bollocks.

Competency-based interviews are quite different to private sector ones if you're not used to them - I'd recommend doing one of the interview prep courses offered by the likes of Carr Communications, specify you're looking at CS AP.

Other than that, degrees/qualifications don't matter all that much, really - they're ignored when it comes to marking, for example - but what you pick up on them will translate to your current role, help in your examples and answers, etc. The IPA ones are generally quite good.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880805#Comment_120880805

Isn't a degree / level 7 qualification a standard minimum requirement for AP competitions now?

Kirbi

No, just desirable.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880891#Comment_120880891

Level 8 is required for AO, anyways.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120880891#Comment_120880891

Been a while since I've looked at 'standard' open AP competition booklet, but I don't think so. Certainly for specialised roles, it was "or equivalent experience."

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120881699#Comment_120881699

The AO grade was specifically designed for graduate recruitment, so that tracks.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120882654#Comment_120882654

Last one I can find says; https://www.publicjobs.ie/documents/AP%20Information%20booklet.pdf

It would be a decided advantage for candidates to hold third level educational qualifications commensurate with the role.\

So not mandatory, but certainly a big help.

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120882689#Comment_120882689

Kinda maybe? It may well help in shortlisting? I mean, having a qualification is never going to disadvantage you. But, like, anyone going for an open AP panel, personally, I'd be much more interested in their relevant experience of actual project management, leadership, business administration, etc., rather than that they have a 2.1 in a marketing degree from 15 years ago.

That said, I'm not at a level where I'd be interviewing people for an AP role, so what do I know?

I do know in a recent panel I sat on, where we had doubts about a candidate's skill levels for a particular role, the presence of relevant technical qualifications got them through - we knew if they had X qualification, they'd have no trouble picking up the essentials of the role they were going for in short order. It didn't need to be a degree, it just had to be a relevant tech qualification. Nobody got extra marks because of their qualifications, though - they just came from competencies.

parisee88

Anyone else have a steer on this or have they done a course which has helped them recently to get to AP/PO?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121541833#Comment_121541833

I haven't done her courses, but I've heard others speak highly of Tina Kinirons;

https://www.tkservices.ie/

MsQuinn

I'd recommend Project Management, Leadership, Lean Six Sigma and Data Analytics

TaurenDruid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121542571#Comment_121542571

Lean Six Sigma - in the civil service? What departments/organisations use it? I think there'd be a real danger the interview board wouldn't know what it is.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121541833#Comment_121541833

As mentioned earlier in the thread, there's no one particular course that will help, but the ones mentioned at the top of the thread would be useful skills to have. But for AP, at least, it all comes down to the competency-based interview as the final hurdle. Same for PO, with added requirement for presentations. So interview and presentation skills courses will be a big plus. The likes of project management, innovation, etc., may get you to the interview, but it's the interview and presentation skills that will get you through it.

griffin100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121541899#Comment_121541899

I’d second Tina - she’s excellent. Can be hard to get her some times as she’s in big demand. Based on mine and colleagues experiences she’s a lot better than some of the more high profile entities.

parisee88

hi folks, do any AOs who never had staff or direct reports but got AP have any advice for the leadership and mgmt piece of the interview or how can you demonstrate it in other ways?

sohara00

Honestly you dont need any courses. They mean nothing and thankfully interviewers have realised that. Its about what youve done not what youve learned

sohara00

literally no need for any of these. honestly youd just be wasting your time and money. And can almost guarantee most interviewers wont have a clue what they even are.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121542571#Comment_121542571

parisee88

Surely it is no harm to do some course to show you willing to upskil where you have clear gaps in some of the competencies!?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122325901#Comment_122325901

sekond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122325901#Comment_122325901

You can lead without being a manager - membership of groups, cross-unit working etc. You can be a leader of your peers (or at least you can make a good competency based answer from something like that). Look at the competencies and see how you can apply them to that sort of work. Also - while you may not have direct reports, are there people in the wider unit that you might have worked with?

parisee88

thank you, that’s a great perspective and I have been looking at it too narrowly! I am on staff groups and “manage upwards” with different units so that is good to know!