New Legislation for E-Scooters Thoughts?

thelibertyboy

[link removed until OP posts their own opinion]

Seth Brundle

Care to share your thoughts on it first?

loyatemu

from what I've read, it doesn't cover eBikes if they have a throttle (even if they're limited to 25km/h) or eScooters ("PPTs") if they have a seat. Which seems like an arbitrary distinction. So you can have an eScooter with a throttle but not a bike, and a bike with a seat but not a scooter. In particular it means that the ubiquitous Fiido folding bikes are still technically not legal.

It won't be enforced anyway but it just seems daft. They could have just defined PPT as anything limited to 25km/h or less that's under a certain weight, then it doesn't matter if its a bike, scooter, monowheel or whatever and would cover any future vehicles that may appear.

Flinty997

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loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817757#Comment_120817757

what's the difference between a scooter with no seat and a scooter with a seat, if they're both limited to 25km/h?

similarly whats the difference between a scooter with a throttle (i.e. all of them) and an eBike with a throttle, if they're both limited to 25km/h?

It's seems arbitrary. Stuff that can exceed 25, fair enough - higher speed = higher danger and they should have more restrictions. But for vehicles that are limited to 25, who cares whether they have a seat or a throttle.

Anyway, the legislation is what it is, I don't expect it to be enforced any more than the current legislation is, kids will still be whizzing around on Fiido's and people will still be going around on high-end eBikes at 45km/h without the guards batting an eyelid.

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120817757#Comment_120817757

It would seem a fairly easy problem to initially solve, restrict the sale of any that class as mopeds etc. to dealers who can apply for the registration certificate for the vehicle.

afaik you can't drive a brand new car out of anything other than an authorised dealership so at least they would have been subject to initial registration and there are laws in place to deal with driving afterwards.

Flinty997

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magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120818282#Comment_120818282

afaik you can't drive a brand new car out of anything other than an authorised dealership

what's the definition of 'authorised'? authorised by the state, or by the car manufacturer? i'd always assumed it was the latter, but that was just an assumption.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120819036#Comment_120819036

To my knowledge, there is no requirement for car dealers to be "authorised". However, in order to be able to access the Vehicle Registration database, the dealer needs a Garage Identity Code but I presume this is simply a case of applying for it from the DoT. Obviously a dealer needs to be registered with Revenue in order to process VRT, VAT, etc but again it would simply be a form to fill out by the dealer.

When you hear of an "authorised dealer", this is simply marketing terminology for a dealer allowed by the manufacturer to sell their vehicles.

zg3409

I agree they should have legalised these years ago as inevitable and restrict Irish dealers to selling road legal devices.

That would if course start an underground scene if modifying them to break the rules or importing illegal devices. Many can be switched from illegal to illegal as part of their design.

They should have a 48 hour confiscation rule if you annoy a Garda too, to try keep some sort of traffic rules in place.

bk

"I agree they should have legalised these years ago as inevitable and restrict Irish dealers to selling road legal devices."

I believe the "loop hole" is that these rules only apply to public roads and not to private property. For instance these rules wouldn't apply to a security guard using one on a privately owned business park.

Thus dealers can legally sell them.

In the end it is up to individuals to use them legally and it is up to the Gardai and courts to enforce those laws.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120818282#Comment_120818282

A "new" car is anything less than 6 months old and/or less than 6,000km on the clock. You can drive it off the boat and have 7 days to bring it to a VRT inspection. Also if not being used on the road there's no need to register it, loads of cars in Mondello have no reg.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120895775#Comment_120895775

They can only be used where the public have no access, traffic laws apply to places the public have access to. The only thing you don't need on private property that the public can access is motor tax. Unless it's a secure business park with all access closed they can't be used.

Spook_ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120897194#Comment_120897194

Note I said 'Brand New' not an import from somewhere, not entirely sure if you can buy a 'brand new' car from within the EU without it being first registered in the country you buy it from and then exporting it

bk

"They can only be used where the public have no access, traffic laws apply to places the public have access to. The only thing you don't need on private property that the public can access is motor tax. Unless it's a secure business park with all access closed they can't be used."

Totally irrelevant to the point being made. They can be used on private property, that is the "loop hole" that shops are allowed to sell too.

And yes, there are plenty of business parks that the public (non staff) can't access. For instance try getting onto Intel or Apples campus.

Tenzor07

There ya go, can't be charged with having no tax/insurance on the escooter though the Gards can take it and issue a fine to get it back:

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/judge-dismisses-no-insurance-case-against-e-scooter-owner/a392870282.html

https://www.thejournal.ie/e-scooter-no-insurance-case-dismissed-6129392-Jul2023/