Brush in grout oil stains - Silver Granite garden slabs

pugleon

Hi all

Had a builder do a very large area of the back garden with silver granite last summer. The guy wasn't great despite checking references and seeing some of their previous work. Never have much luck with these things. Anyways. He laid silver granite mixed size slabs on hardcore sand, and then cemented in. Structurally it's sound even if his cuts were pretty bad in places. But.

When he brushed grout in using JOINTEX basalt it left oil stains over the entire sets. In some cases the entire slabs are darker looking/stained. Most/all of them have some sort of stains various sizes or what they call picture frame stains on others. His answer to this was "it will weather off", as was the answer of the supplier who had nothing else to offer when I rang again. Well it's been a year and a decent winter and the stains look as bad as before.

Does anyone know of a fluid which will clean this? I've tried a very decent powerwasher several times. In addition to dish soap with a deck scrub. And some over the counter oil stain removers and Zep.

policarp

Can you show some photos ?

pugleon

IMG_9528.jpeg

IMG_9552.jpeg

I think the the product uses linseed oil. Builder didn’t wash it away properly

policarp

would those stains have happened because of different traffic?

pugleon

No defo not. They’re from the grout it was visible immediately afterward

The Continental Op

Really can't believe the stains are anything to do with Jointex. I've seen it used on exactly the same flags as the OP has with no staining. Application is by brushing Jointex into the joints so it will go all over the flags anyway.

10-10-20

Thinking out loud: I wonder is it silicon, isn't that used for viscosity in some of the jointing compounds? That could be why it's resistant to weathering and cleaning. Also does jointex suggest that the jointing be installed when the slabs are wet? If so that's to keep the silicon from penetrating the stone...

10-10-20

Yeah, Mr AJ McCormack seems to support my theory:

https://www.pavingexpert.com/jointex_01

I bet your installer didn't wet the surface and the polymeric resin penetrated the stone.

See if you can find the manufacturer of Jointex and see if they can recommend a cleaning agent for the stone.

The Continental Op

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120718017#Comment_120718017

If it is silicone then it could be tested with water. I would suspect that water will form a bead where there is silicone in the surface of the slab just like on a freshly waxed car if no silicone then the water will just "blob" on the surface.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120718082#Comment_120718082

Yes, could be a valid test. Not sure what polymer the makeup of the product is though, but I'd still guess that it's silicon derived.

The Continental Op

tbh, I can't see silicone having anything to do with what is in effect an epoxy resin.

The instructions even say you can do that last part dry and that any residue will soon go. These are granite slabs they don't have a lot of porosity. I made a shove ha'penny board out of a left over one and they are difficult to mark.

More likely the stains were exacerbated by the Jointex (something was already on the slabs) or that the builder has used something to clean up the residue which has made it worse.

10-10-20

Napatha is the solvent according to the MSDS.

pugleon

It's not silicone its oil. Im guessing they would call that "resin". But from the manufacturer manual and other similar products seems to be linseed oil used.

I've checked 100's of you tube guides and spent weeks online trying to find what it was and how to get rid of it no joy. The manufacturer has ignored my contact and the supplier just says it will weather off but its been a year looks as bad as day 1.

The builder didnt apply enough water and wash it off heavily after brushing it in. Several manuals and guides say it must be washed off properly or will stain. Lithofin and faber no oil were some of the things I came across anyone any experience with those for oil stain removal?

10-10-20

Yeah, please excuse the thought process above, but we finally figured it was Napatha. Napatha is one of the fuel oil distillates from crude oil.

Toulene was in the past as a widely used solvent for oils, but I'm not sure how you'd obtain it these days (or if you even should) as both Napatha and Toulene are highly flammable. If you tried a small patch with lighter fuel (Napatha) you might get an idea of the response, but it could be fractional.

pugleon

Really appreciate your thoughts and thought process :) I could try a small test patch if I can get my hands on either it’s going on the list

10-10-20

The other option would be to seal the patio with another sealant which MIGHT mask that initial oil stain. I don't know much about external sealants, but there are some which give a "wet look" and it MIGHT work. Examples here:

https://www.smartseal.ie/sealers/patio-sealer/

The Continental Op

If you haven't already take a look at the HG product range for floors https://hg.eu/uk/products/floors. I'd recommend some of their other products. They have this grease absorber which might be worth trying https://hg.eu/uk/products/hg-natural-stone-oil-and-grease-absorber . A good few builders merchants stock their stuff.

pugleon

All great ideas alright. I was thinking about wet look sealing and degreasers, both commercial and industrial.

Only problem I have with trying lithofin and Faber no oil is expensive coming from the UK and really small tubs for the size of the garden. Plus no reviews i can find anyone tried em for similar issues

The Continental Op

Acetone is a decent degreaser. Readily available anywhere they sell the materials for fibre glass. But there is lies the problem or the advantage it does have an effect on epoxy resin although doesn't do a lot to cured resin. Its cheap enough to buy by the litre to get some to try. You must wear gloves when you use it as its absorbed on the skin, has to be rubber gloves as it dissolves most plastic ones.

10-10-20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120719466#Comment_120719466

Yeah, good points.

And most nail polish remover isn't acetone either these days!

pugleon

That was on my list too. Test patch a few attempts if not onto the next chemical. Are napatha and toulene hard to get restricted chemicals as in?

The Continental Op

I suggested Acetone as I know it is easily available. I'd be very doubtful about toluene. But worth trying spray painting suppliers as they might have it, I know they used to have it in the UK be don't think so here. Isopropyl Alcohol (IPA) is also readily available as amongst other things Panel Wipe a cleaner used to clean surfaces for spray painting. Naphtha iirc is in Coleman Fuel and maybe Aspen fuel will check.

Edit> Coleman Fuel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleman_fuel you can get it here occasionally in specialist camping suppliers. Sorry Aspen fuel is Alkylate Petrol, burns in a stove like Coleman fuel but different stuff.

standardg60

It's nothing to do with the jointing compound OP, i've seen this loads of times.

It's a natural product, it will have varying levels of porosity and impurities which will present themselves over time.

Looks a very good job to me.

pugleon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120720428#Comment_120720428

Are you the builder that did it? 🤣 it’s horrendous up close. And it is residue from the brush in it was there from the exact time he used the stuff.

Theres plenty wrong with the job but the oil stains are the bit I can’t not see

whizbang

just get some more and stain the whole lot.

pugleon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120728656#Comment_120728656

If it was uniform or stained evenly I would. But as you can see in the photos it’s patchy

Gsail

Ive just had the same thing happen to me using Aspects Easy Joint and its blotchy and oil joints all over :(

Struggling to see how it will be resolved.

Lithofin and London Stone both recommend their Resin X product. But 2 coats in on the stone below and zero result.

pugleon

No way! Goes to show ye, it WAS the joint compound. I knew, as it was fine before jointing….

So I've tried EVERY Lithofin/Faber/HG products they have at great cost. The Lithfin UK head of sales a lovely bloke really did his best to try everything and went out of his way. But this stuff needs ultra heavy washing and sweeping before it sets or it just ruins the stone.

I also tried most of the other suggestions in this post. No joy. Not even a mild improvement. And it's 3 years now so not weathering off. My plan as mentioned… is to find a very wet look sealer that darkens the stone. Only way out I can see but I wish you luck.

They should take this jointing stuff off the market 11k euro job ruined. If you have any luck let us know, I'll do the same

rje66

11k for a granite patio, jeez!!!

pugleon

It's a very big back garden done fully in granite and black limestone boarders. About the average price I got for what was done. Pity the guy doing the job was (i cant say the word)

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123175068#Comment_123175068

No consolation but i take back what i said earlier, clearly the granite absorbed the silicon/oil from the grout. When these products first came out it was essential to wet the surface before applying, but afterwards this didn't seem to be necessary. Obviously they need very careful application. Hopefully a sealer improves it.

pugleon

Yeah seems to be I'm not the only one at least! Jointex should really take their product off the market it's a disaster. Let you all know when I wet look seal it this summer to mask the issue, no everyone here has been a great help it's great resource Boards ie always great people willing to offer ideas.