Parents dogs around daughter

BrianG23

Hi, so I'm have a somewhat significant tiff with my wife. We have a 2 year old daughter and her parents have an English bull terrier and some type of terrier collie mix about 1 years old each. Her parents often babysit our daughter.

Basically I'm of the opinion the dogs should not be around my daughter directly. There is some agression between the 2 dogs, for example they fight over toys, treats, the couch etc. During these times the parents seem to take it lightly and they are trying to sort out the territory between the 2.

Today, the bull terrier got aggressive for the first time. Seemingly out of no where she was trying to bite me. Normally I get along with the dog very well but I today was a different story.

Overall I feel the dogs simply can't be trusted near my daughter but my wife doesn't see it that way. There will be pictures posted online of daughter hugging the bull terrier. We argue, she gets up upset. What should I do in this situation. I don't want to keep daughter from going to grandparents but it seems like the only solution. Am I too overprotective???

StevenToast

You are correct, your wife is wrong...

The joys of marriage with kids....

Eoinbmw

100% never trust any dog with a small child !

Im a lifelong dog owner and in my experience Dogs look at children as equal and can get very jealous and snap etc!

Ljmscooter

No you are damn right.

The nicest dog can nip, some nips leave scars

Let them babysit at your house and leave the dogs at home

Look for a new babysitter.

You can control what happens in your own home, but not in someone elses.

When your child visits her grandparents home, make sure she is never left unsupervised with the dogs.

Also both dogs are very young at 1 year old - still technically pups - so will calm as they grow older if properly trained.

SmallgirlBigcity

I completely agree with you on this one. I don't think you're over reacting at all. I think it's worth trying to get your point across, even if it causes an argument. Hopefully your wife sees sense in time.

wildwillow

You can’t be too careful with children around dogs. No way would I leave a child with them unless the dogs were confined while your baby is in the house.

phormium

Not a hope would I have a child that age babysat in a house where the dogs were not kept totally away from her, too risky if something were to go wrong and it can happen in the blink of an eye!

I only have a cat and I supervise her very closely when I have grandchildren in the house, cat not allowed indoors but they do like to give her the odd rub but I won't let them near her on their own, even with that the 2 yr old accidentally stood on cat's tail few days ago even with adult present, cat got a fright obviously and reacted and luckily child was far enough away not to get a scratch but things can happen so fast and no point taking chances!

Oddly enough when we were growing up my father bred german shepherds, we used to play with the pups around the garden! Luckily nothing ever happened but then again we drove around with no child seats or seatbelts either, different times!

shesty

Nope you're right. Especially if the dogs are a bit snappy as it is. They will calm, but I would never trust dogs with kids. If they are separated that's ok, but if they are down on the floor etc altogether, then no. You're right.

I'd propose the babysitting happens in your house, or the dogs are not around when the parents mind your daughter. If they are only about a year, I assume they arrived after the child? They are essentially still puppies, and are likely to nip and chew, but that in itself could cause significant damage to a 2 year old, never mind what else might happen.

I've no problem with dogs, but common sense needs to be applied and they should be kept apart from the child, both for their own sake and for the child.

Larbre34

I'm the greatest lover of dogs you'll ever find. They can be so brilliant for children to teach them about love and care and responsibility and play. And in turn the dogs are so happy to have attention and playtime and pets and cuddles

But I'd never trust a dog with a small child. Any dog. Ever.

And I'd trust even less a child of mine in a dog dominated environment I couldn't control.

You're in the right here. There is no compromise as the only compromise is the safety of your child.

You may have to play hardball with your wife as some people don't ever want to accept a flaw pointed out in their family and in that regard you could benefit from having some examples of documented dog on child attacks and the circumstances around them, especially from the UK press.

There are too many parents either bereaved or left caring for a permanently disfigured and/or disabled child because they brushed off concerns about a dog who had never before been aggressive with a child.

DBB

Jaypers, not a situation I'd be at ALL comfortable with OP, and I think you'll need to calmly and gently try to bring your wife to realising that it's a very risky dynamic with 2 idiotic young, teenage dogs, and one small child who does not yet possess the ability to see even the most obvious signs that the dogs are uncomfortable with what your daughter is inadvertently doing with them. I hope it helps somewhat if i tell you I'm one of only a few qualified dog behaviourists in Ireland, so I deal with a LOT of dog bite cases, including too many bites to children that are entirely predictable and therefore, preventable.

Dogs don't like being hugged. They are not hard-wired to like the face-to-face contact that we humans naturally do. In fact, they can perceive hugs as a threat, as a scary thing. Now, to clarify, my dogs are fine with me hugging them... they know me, they trust me, and I can see the subtle signs if they're starting to feel uncomfortable with my stupid human behaviour!

But it's a VERY different dynamic when a child, or any person with whom my dogs don't implicitly know and trust EXTREMELY well, goes to hug them. They're tremendously tolerant, but even the most tolerant, patient, gentle dog can be put into an impossible position by an unwitting toddler, and this is PRECISELY why and when incidents happen. Toddlers are overwhelmingly the age group most at risk of dog bites for this very reason.

It's not the child's fault. Neither is it the dog's fault. It is 100% the responsibility of the adults to make sure that there is zero unsupervised access between child and dogs, and even at that, the supervision must be "educated supervision"... that your wife, and her parents, know how to quickly spot when your daughter is taking (unwitting) liberties, and know when the dogs are (a) showing early signs of discomfort with your daughter's actions/proximity, and (b) when the dogs are just not in a toddler-tolerant place right now... eg while the dogs are playing with one another, when they are being fed, when they are sleeping/resting, when they are chewing/playing with toys or chews, when they are hyper.... not an exhaustive list.

Also, I would not recommend allowing access between your little one with both dogs at the same time. One supervised dog at a time at most, because 2 dogs together can quickly wind each other up, and can very quickly gang up to deal with something they perceive as a threat. One dog at a time, while everyone is calm and quiet, for short periods, and very carefully supervised.

If there's ANY chance that your little one could end up in unsupervised contact with either dog, then measures need to be put in place to ensure it can't happen... baby gates, crates, pens... whatever barriers you need to make sure everyone is safe and separate. If that's not possible, then as others have suggested, maybe an overhaul of where your daughter is minded is called for.

I wonder might it help for you to contact a qualified behaviourist, and talk to them as a family about the situation. If what you're saying is the case, even without you feeling that one of the dogs has become more pushy with you, uncontrolled access between a toddler and one dog is an accident waiting to happen. Between her and 2 dogs escalates the risk significantly.

Have a look at these graphics from Dr. Sophia Yin, who was a world leader in promoting bite prevention and child safety around dogs.

https://www.tailslantau.org/amp/dog-bite-prevention-kids

Maybe showing these to your wife will help to plant a seed.

Kurooi

That is crazy. I assume your wife was raised in a dog household and grew used to this being normal.

coolbeans

Leaving a bull terrier and a collie near an infant FFS! I sympathise with you OP having to deal with this truly moronic attitude.

borderlinemeath

One big red flag for me OP is that a lot of dog bites and what are classed as "attacks" happen to visitors to a dogs home. A lot of the time it's visiting relatives and particularly children. Dogs, even young dogs like these, can be defensive in their own home, and particularly as you said they have full access and are up on the couch, which to me would indicate that there's no boundaries with them at all.

As DBB said, toddlers are a huge risk age group. From a dogs perspective they are odd little people that move differently with arms flailing about, they can make loud startling noises and can unwittingly upset them. Even the most placid dogs I know can be easily startled by young children. My daughter is 7 now, and grew up surrounded by dogs but even still, my house still has locked doors and stair gates for separation. I would definitely be looking at arranging alternative childcare if your wife won't listen.

Victor

"Luckily nothing ever happened but then again we drove around with no child seats or seatbelts either, different times!" - this is known as survivor bias. essentially we only hear comments like this from the people who survived unscathed in crashes. We don't get to hear from the 31,000+ people that died. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_road_traffic_accidents_deaths_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland_by_year

phormium

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120688775#Comment_120688775

My point was we know better these days! Not advocating that it was ok then either but that's the way things were.

BrianG23

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0616/1389579-dog-bite-figures/

Well, thanks for all the replies. Currently, her parents have promised to keep the dogs away out of the room while my daughters there. Realistically grandmother is the one minding her and I simply don't trust her to keep her word on it. But my partner does trust her. What a pain in the cock I must say. Grandfather agrees with me and so does my wife now.

Would not have thought this would be an issue before getting into this situation.

Ens of July daughter is starting creche at least.